Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Gurpsmeister]

Those asking how is getting more gil = pay to win should read these threads http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-WOW-Tokens%29 and http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ame-Time-Token The community decided it's pay to win.

No no no. A small part of a small part of the community have an opinion. Nothing more. The forums are a tiny bit of the playerbase. Don't pretend you have some righteous movement on the March.

[alimdia]

No no no. A small part of a small part of the community have an opinion. Nothing more. The forums are a tiny bit of the playerbase. Don't pretend you have some righteous movement on the March.

Then start a thread asking for sub tokens and see how the same people saying here retainers aren't pay to win will jump against it.

[Gurpsmeister]

Then start a thread asking for sub tokens and see how the same people saying here retainers aren't pay to win will jump against it.

I'm one of those people. I say go for it, but then I'm a small voice in a small crowd. Against it or not, as long as people pay and they will, things like this will keep being added.
I'm for it.

[Remedi]

More retainers means more ways to earn Gil. With more Gil you could easily buy all the necessary materials that you need to craft or let others craft the gear that is needed for the new raid. With this new gear that you have really fast you then can try to tackle savage which will give you an advantage to all those that did not have the gil thus did not buy the stuff. Yes people can make gil even without that but its still easier when you are already good at doing Gil and get more options to do so. There was a thread a bit ago about a player that sells huge amounts of things thanks to gathering bots. With the app and real life money he could change the MB prices much more without needing to be in the game.

I mean any other P2W boost only helps someone get something easier. It does not stop others from getting there without that. The same with extra retainers and the app. You can still get a lot of gil without it but if you had them you would probably make even more gil and that faster. Doing something faster thanks to retainers and the app can kinda count as a win too. You win more time for others things.

(Also its a shame how people cant really stay on topic and have to attack the OP just because of other topics. This is not a troll topic so it should not attacked like one. Either post your opinon about the topic without attacks or just ignore it.)

I understand the implications, it's essentially the same deal with buying mini pets on wow store to sell them on MB and then buy gear.
However what you are describing is something very specific, because making gils is not hard, nor is beign prepared for the savage patch crafting wise, you are not getting a direct advantage over some1 that is preparing him/herself for the new content drop, which is why the pay to win argument will be shut down hard by the company.

That's why I insist we need to simply state that keeping storage space at ransom of a paywall is not something we will take lightly

[Airget]

Those asking how is getting more gil = pay to win should read these threads http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-WOW-Tokens%29 and http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ame-Time-Token The community decided it's pay to win.

After reading those threads how can you come here and say retainers aren't pay to win?

Yes, where does gil hold the advantage in PVE content? The only advantage it has is when it comes to "Savage" races however those races are usually done well ahead of time and those who partake in the race enlist the help of crafters to achieve the goal they desire. So in that context it's still not pay to win because the ecosystem is setup in such a way that Crafters work together with the PVE group to achieve the goal of world first.

World First isn't "Which party also has the crafters in their party to craft gear." It's "While the party is busy challenging the Savage content, crafters are busy producing the gear to help them get world first."

At the end of day, said gear offers very little advantage, the best gear is still through tomestones and no amount of gil will make it easier for the player to get more tomestones then they are allowed.

Because of that, the MB isn't a P2W design since the concept of gaining gil in the overall design of the game has like .001% advantage and only towards those who tackle Savage content.

[Neophyte]

So technically speaking, I could buy myself a PSVita and remote play while at work/away from the game and do the exact same things that the app does, therefore I'm paying to win.

:thinking:

Sure, as long as you have the connection (money) and the PSVita (money) you have adcantages someone using this app can just dream off. Like crafting at work or afking in Eureka.
My flatmate alters prices when not being at home since 2 years now, lol.
But an app with a remote-play superlight for a few bucks? Nononoonnoo, slippery slope.


You can already P2W by buing a 2nd account, giving you more retainers to sell on as long as you transfer the items from one account to the other.

Ye, it's more steps to undertake, but in the end: he can pay money to get advantages on the market board.
And he is even allowed to own additional houses this way! Ye, that's right... people can pay to get more houses and they can even teleport to all of them if they befriend their characters!!!

[Vstarstruck]

More retainers means more ways to earn Gil. With more Gil you could easily buy all the necessary materials that you need to craft or let others craft the gear that is needed for the new raid. With this new gear that you have really fast you then can try to tackle savage which will give you an advantage to all those that did not have the gil thus did not buy the stuff. Yes people can make gil even without thatbut its still easier when you are already good at doing Gil and get more options to do so. There was a thread a bit ago about a player that sells huge amounts of things thanks to gathering bots. With the app and real life money he could change the MB prices much more without needing to be in the game.

I mean any other P2W boost only helps someone get something easier. It does not stop others from getting there without that. The same with extra retainers and the app. You can still get a lot of gil without it but if you had them you would probably make even more gil and that faster. Doing something faster thanks to retainers and the app can kinda count as a win too. You win more time for others things.

(Also its a shame how people cant really stay on topic and have to attack the OP just because of other topics. This is not a troll topic so it should not attacked like one. Either post your opinon about the topic without attacks or just ignore it.)

thank you :3

This is completely untrue. Pay to Win is not a literal term. If you wanted it to be literal, you would need to change the term to Pay for Advantage.

Even if you wanted to use the term in the case of winning, such as in PvP, Pay to Win does not require that you actually win. It simply requires that you have an advantage over the non-payer that they can't achieve without paying.

+1

[Reynhart]

After reading those threads how can you come here and say retainers aren't pay to win?

Having an additionnal retainer doesn't create gils. To sell those additionnal ten items you'd still have to craft/gather/drop them or the materials/crystals you need for them, and thus, you'll invest more time "farming" gils. It has nothing to do with simply buying gils.

[NanaWiloh]

The retainers you pay for should just be there for inventory space, no MB listings, no ventures. Locking ventures and extra MB slots is making MB management pay to win and unfair to those that pay on base SUB. This also means removal of the proposed IRL currency for the new app, not allowing those to spam undercutting just because they are rich.



a sub model shouldn't have any pay to win aspects to it, and even arguable that f2p shouldn't have p2w aspects in it, so why is this sub model game having ptw in it?

The additional Retainers you can purchase off the mogstation can do MB listings and ventures, sorry to say but your late on the party crashing. If you are using additional retainers yourself beyond the stock two then you are contributing too the very thing your against.

[Mahrze]

Having an additionnal retainer doesn't create gils. To sell those additionnal ten items you'd still have to craft/gather/drop them or the materials/crystals you need for them, and thus, you'll invest more time "farming" gils. It has nothing to do with simply buying gils.

I think that it's not a direct pay to win circumstance, but when a person can go from 40 inventory to 40 + (n * retainers) means more work, but more profit. No different than a small business with 2 locations vs another small business with 10; sure, the one with ten works more but earns more.

It doesn't directly grant you the cash, but it does give you a venue to expand your profits beyond the default access venue.