Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Vstarstruck]

The retainers you pay for should just be there for inventory space, no MB listings, no ventures. Locking ventures and extra MB slots is making MB management pay to win and unfair to those that pay on base SUB. This also means removal of the proposed IRL currency for the new app, not allowing those to spam undercutting just because they are rich.

In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Some critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" or "p2w" games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay.[34] For example, games—such as Dota 2, League of Legends, and Maplestory—only allow the purchase of cosmetic items, meaning that a "free-to-play player" will be on the same level as a player who has spent money on the game.

a sub model shouldn't have any pay to win aspects to it, and even arguable that f2p shouldn't have p2w aspects in it, so why is this sub model game having ptw in it?

Depends on how you define P2W. It used to be that anything that let you pay real money to circumvent a gameplay limitation was considered P2W. But because it's SE, people are now trying to change it to mean something else.

Just thought I edit this in because people want to change what P2W means. In this case, having 180 (after app 200) sell slots per character, making it 1600 per server/ account (so duo box will have 3200 etc.) while base sub is 320 per 8 chrs, or 40 per chr. This glaringly fits the meaning of P2W, what is literally defined as "winning" is not the point of this thread, and I do not know how that is missed by many. I do not want to pay 30 EUR or whatever it ends up being (my understanding 36 USD) plus micro transactions just to keep up sales. 36 USD+ micro transactions means that one person can rule the pricing on a lot of key items because of this P2W situation now.

DO NOT SELL POWER! at ANY kind of level, sell an advantage that impacts balance in some way. For people auguring making muti accounts and chrs is the same thing, not it is not and this app should make it glaring so why.. TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is worth noting how much longer it takes to change chrs or accounts then to manage everything from one character. (Fyi FFXIV will not run more then 2 accounts on one computer though normal means) While you are trying to change, your taking time away that you could of spent crafting. (or a missed price change)

At some point, you can't manage that many accounts without having some kind of bot. this app puts a lot of power in a single account, more so then a duo boxer due to the streamline it gives, and being a duo boxer with this app just makes it exponentially worse. This app makes it too easy to price adjust, as you do other things, and costing a IRL money fee only harms it more. You really can't make an app to price change your in game items, when the economy is based on spam undercutting.

at the end of the day this app enables one person to control the MB, the only question is, is there that someone that plays this game. There are plenty of people that spend thousands of month on mobile games, to me controlling a game economy is a more enticing challenge.

[akaneakki]

Pay to win? How is it exactly pay to win, what does your character do better in combat or anywhere else to make your character stronger? You have time to explain.

[Derio]

How is it pay to win?

What is the prize? What are you winning from the retainer?

What pvp advantage does the retainer give to make it pay to win?

Is this retainer giving out EX mounts?

[LeoLupinos]

FFXIV has already gone beyond the "only cosmetic" cash shop.
I think we can't revert at this point.

[Vstarstruck]

Pay to win? How is it exactly pay to win, what does your character do better in combat or anywhere else to make your character stronger? You have time to explain.

How is it pay to win?

What is the prize? What are you winning from the retainer?

What pvp advantage does the retainer give to make it pay to win?

Is this retainer giving out EX mounts?

wiki define:

In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Some critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" or "p2w" games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay.[34] For example, games—such as Dota 2, League of Legends, and Maplestory—only allow the purchase of cosmetic items, meaning that a "free-to-play player" will be on the same level as a player who has spent money on the game.

Substitute paying base sub and you get:

In FFXIV players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for the base sub Some critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" or "p2w" games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay.[34] For example, games—such as Dota 2, League of Legends, and Maplestory—only allow the purchase of cosmetic items, meaning that a "base sub player" will be on the same level as a player who has spent money on the game.

Using real money for extra sell slots, and real money to price change while not at the game are pay to win advantages. This is what people mean by a slippery slope. (accepting the idea of paid retainers to begin with) Now you have this app making the MB pay to win by changing prices. In case you did not know, you need to spam undercut, people buy the top item more often then not. Combat is one aspect of this game, and ptw is not limited to combat.

How little or much something impacts one ability to advance does not define if something is pay to win or not. (i/e gil does not do much on this game gil is worthless etc) The fact here, managing the MB is pay to win in ffxiv, more so when this app releases. Not only do you get to sell more items, but you can list more clones. The clone thing is important because when someone undercuts you, you can undercut someone on one retainer while keeping your listing because of the second. This is a huge advantage as you can get a sale still while changing your price on the cloned item from the different retainer. (Also if price changing one item does not take down your other listings on that retainer like it does while logged into the game, this is even a stronger argument on how this app makes retainer sale listings pay to win)

[LeoLupinos]

Pay to win? How is it exactly pay to win, what does your character do better in combat or anywhere else to make your character stronger? You have time to explain.

How is it pay to win?

What is the prize? What are you winning from the retainer?

What pvp advantage does the retainer give to make it pay to win?

Is this retainer giving out EX mounts?

Do you both already played Fair games that become Pay to win over the time? They started with simple moves like these ones from SE. Anything more than cosmetic/glamour is somewhat pay to win. Retainers can control economy, so you pay to win at economy. You can have a lot of retainers, so a lot of ventures, a lot of gill and mats, so pay to win more. As you can see, only with these examples, it's not only cosmetic, while there's much more examples.

[AlexanderThorolund]

Just stop. Seriously.

It isn’t pay to win, you know it isn’t and creating threads like this fans the flames and plants seeds in people’s consciousness that this is pay to win, which I repeat, it is not.

By creating threads like this you’re just trolling basically. Sorry but I’m just calling it as it is. I can’t help it and I know the majority of people will feel the same.

[Vstarstruck]

Just stop. Seriously.

It isn’t pay to win, you know it isn’t and creating threads like this fans the flames and plants seeds in people’s consciousness that this is pay to win, which I repeat, it is not.

By creating threads like this you’re just trolling basically. Sorry but I’m just calling it as it is. I can’t help it and I know the majority of people will feel the same.

I explained why it is pay to win and you sit here just to attack me and call me a troll? 10/10, no the only one is trolling and trying start flames is you

LeoLupinos did as well (I gave you +1 on both your posts btw)

I made this thread because the app enlightened me on how they keep pushing on the slippery slope to make this game more and more pay to win. Your paying extra for advantages, that is pay to win, just because those advantages do not hold meaning to you, does not change the fact it is paying IRL money for an advantage over base sub. I find it funny how I go out of my way to explain why it is pay to win, and you and errk just sit here and say "no it is not"? you do not explain because you have no argument, just here to attack me personally.

[ErryK]

It's not pay to win, but OP is known for dramatics, so I'm not surprised there is yet another thread by OP that is making a mountain out of a molehill.

[akaneakki]

You have something called pay to progress and something called pay to win.
Pay to progress is where you pay yourself access to get to new places/areas etc. In some other concept maybe you need certain items etc. Pay to win is where gear matters to win the thing, it's like pvp where the stronger gear you have the more damage you do, but in this game you don't have that sort of benefit, since everyone is equally geared. Again, I need to know what you mean by pay to win.
I'm wondering what excactly you are winning by having more retainers, does it clear you ultimate coil? Does it clear you primal wins? Does it clear you any content when you paid for the service?? If so, which content.