Red Mages need some love

[FelixDaCat]

[QUOTE=Dualgunner;4651156 It has no DoTs of any kind so the second it stops casting for any reason, it stops damaging at all. Using the job's recovery utilities cost it a fortune in damage, and embolden is too erratic to focus any synergy on.

When you look at the actual results page for the savage parses, it becomes even clearer that RDM just isn't keeping up the best. The other two casters sit comfortably at the top, while RDM sits near last alongside the likes of BRD and NIN, whom both have infinitely better supports than RDM does.[/QUOTE]


I think you're really onto something with giving us a DoT spell/attack. If we had a DoT that ticked on for "X" seconds would help nudge up the overall DPS, without drastically changing the overall balance of the class.

I honestly think our burst melee damage should be increased to cover "our" lower DPS output.

It would be nice if they could make RDM have more rotation options, rather than is being so narrow.

[TelosNox]

A DOT does not change anything regarding DPS (if they adjust numbers accordingly).
DOTs are only more potent than direct casts if you can spread them over multiple targets and only if the targets live long enough. In all other cases a DOT is just more management needed and a potential DPS loss (if boss disappears directly after you applied the dot, the potency is wasted).

RDM needs more potency in general or more DPS utility. He does not need to be a Melee (Buffing Autoattack would just make mechanics harder) and he does not need DOTs at all.

Just remove that damn raise from casters + increase RDM dps and the discussion will be instantly gone. Casters don't want to raise, they want to do their job and that is DPS

[Wayfinder3]

Not true at all, dots allow for alot more potential dps advantages in scenario's where you have to disconnect from the boss for a mechanic or, an add is present but not worth using your AoE rotation. The latter is the most practical reason as this is smn claim to fame in o7s. being able to dot both dad/biblio and boss is a very powerful tool that rdm lacks because aside from contre sixte. all it's other AoE aren't designed with exactly 2 enemies in mind. You're not using scatter and moulinet on dad and boss.
I maybe incorrect but i believe, RDM has the highest AoE burst damage as it's possible to put out 5 E-Moulinet 200 potency each with no fall off for a total of 1000 potency per enemy hit. Blm and smn can catch up to this and out pace it, but they rely on dots and timed mechanics that can help or hurt them. blm being forced into umbral ice, and smn has no AoE nuke out of dwt. rdm's Aoe problem is that it's boring and clunky when used in a single target encounter like o5s. scatter is really only there for dungeons or if your 5 moulinet go off and the adds are still alive.

Also it's very rare that jobs get dots that are weaker than the standard nuke. infact Sch Miasma 2 is really the only example of this but that is an AoE tool. If rdm were to logically get a dot. just give it 2 dots that are equal in mana gain to T/A so 11 mana but stronger potency over time. the other option is to put a burn on Holy/flare but, this causes problems since this would mean if a boss would leave immediately after you do your melee which is currently a gain(first graven/3rd/ and the last graven) in o8s is an example of this, it'd be a loss. This means rdm would now have to over cap mana so the dot ticks fully on the finisher but since that is also a loss because you're gettting 0 mana per cast. I think making a Dot version of Thunder and Aero is the better and smoother option here.

Either make 2 weak dots that are powerful over a period of time akin to SMN. Or make 1 dot that is weak at the initial hit, gives 11 mana on both sides and ticks to be stronger later on. it's really a touchy subject.

[Maero]

Blm and Smn melt groups of enemies much faster then Red Mage. Red Mage aoe is not weak per say but is also not the strongest either
I agree just get rid of raise or do not let that be a damn crutch for increasing rm damage.

[TelosNox]

Not true at all, dots allow for alot more potential dps advantages in scenario's where you have to disconnect from the boss for a mechanic or, an add is present but not worth using your AoE rotation. The latter is the most practical reason as this is smn claim to fame in o7s. being able to dot both dad/biblio and boss is a very powerful tool that rdm lacks because aside from contre sixte.

Wow, great!!!! A gain of about 0,15% overall for that specific scenario (compared contribution difference of the dots between O6 and O7). For a scenario that is most of the time not relevant.
RDM does not need a DOT. He needs potency increase!

[EllieShadeflare]

Wow, great!!!! A gain of about 0,15% overall for that specific scenario (compared contribution difference of the dots between O6 and O7). For a scenario that is most of the time not relevant.
RDM does not need a DOT. He needs potency increase!

I mean, most of the classes that lost their unnecessary DoTs turned out to have better damage than in HW (beyond the usual iLevel differences), and proved they didn't need them. Warrior lost its DoTs entirely, Dark Knight only kept Salted Earth, Machinist traded a DoT that was essentially "there" for Flamethrower which melds with mechanics, and finally, Dragoon and Ninja only kept the DoTs in their combos.

Red Mage really doesn't need a DoT, tbh. It just needs a potency increase across the board.

[Jonnycbad]

I maybe incorrect but i believe, RDM has the highest AoE burst damage as it's possible to put out 5 E-Moulinet 300 potency each with no fall off for a total of 1500 potency per enemy hit.

First off E.Moulinet is 200 potency. Secondly, to do 5 costs 90/90 Mana and Manification. IDK about you, but it takes about 2 or 3 pulls worth of mobs in an Expert Dungeon to get 90/90 if I'm just using Scatter->Scatter. So by the time I get 90/90 from Scatter-ing 3 groups of mobs from the start of a dungeon, we're already at a boss, at which point I no longer have need for 5x Moulinet. Meanwhile BLM is already busting out Flares and Fouls and SMN is busting out Banes/Painflares/Death Flares, melting all the initial pulls of mobs in seconds.

[Wayfinder3]

First off E.Moulinet is 200 potency. Secondly, to do 5 costs 90/90 Mana and Manification. IDK about you, but it takes about 2 or 3 pulls worth of mobs in an Expert Dungeon to get 90/90 if I'm just using Scatter->Scatter. So by the time I get 90/90 from Scatter-ing 3 groups of mobs from the start of a dungeon, we're already at a boss, at which point I no longer have need for 5x Moulinet. Meanwhile BLM is already busting out Flares and Fouls and SMN is busting out Banes/Painflares/Death Flares, melting all the initial pulls of mobs in seconds.

reply my fault it believed it was 300, however. getting 5 moulinet in an organized encounter isn't hard. in o5s if you get to 90 before adds, use M M sc, sc, manafication, M, M, M. thats 5. it's definetly alot of damage upfront. also rdm doesn't use just scatter at 3 mobs, it uses it is with each A/T as it's the same amount of potency as scatter on 3 enemies.

[ChaoticCrimson]

getting 5 moulinet in an organized encounter isn't hard. in o5s if you get to 90 before adds, use M M sc, sc, manafication, M, M, M. thats 5. it's definetly alot of damage upfront.

You know, in all this time I never considered extending the number of E. Moulinets using Manafication that way. I guess mostly because stuff seems to melt quickly enough with just three in dungeons, which is what I usually use RDM these days, and I end up saving Manafication to make sure I have enough mana at the start of a boss to open with Embolden > Fleche > E. melee combo > etc. Still, that's definitely something I should remember.

[Johaandr]

You come off as prejudiced here, almost like you don't like RDMs just because they're RDMs. That's really shortsighted. Get better my dude.

Also... what?

Also "get better my dude" - what? Just looked at ur.. yeah being diskrè

Also there will always be people like me who prefer jobs over rdm. I mean gg for loving rdm? never said i HATED rdm.
I just dont like their raid utility. Thats all im a greedy hlr.. Dont like my statement? Get over it.