Red Mages need some love

[Malkria]

I feel like Red Mages get the low end of the stick after progression ends. Now don't get me wrong, Red Mage is a great job to progress on due to the spam raises, but once progression ends and you have everything on farm, is there really any point to taking a red mage?

Well I personally hate pet classes, and I don't like dot classes, so right there makes SMN no fun for me. In regards to BLM, at least until you unlock all the crafting you need to socket more materia and farm enough materia to get max spell speed...RDM is just better mobility and thus a lot more fun to play then BLM.

Having gotten both to the 60 range my RDM just feels more powerful then my BLM, and less stressful to play. Frankly if any class really needs love in my opinon it's the BLM, as it's timer is just NOT fun to play around where RDM not only is stylish, versatile, but mobile. The only thing I feel it really lacks is the hard hitting melee that the three hit combo should be that you build towards.

[Popotato]

Having gotten both to the 60 range my RDM just feels more powerful then my BLM, and less stressful to play. Frankly if any class really needs love in my opinon it's the BLM, as it's timer is just NOT fun to play around where RDM not only is stylish, versatile, but mobile. The only thing I feel it really lacks is the hard hitting melee that the three hit combo should be that you build towards.

For a selfish DPS, BLM are in a good spot right now. RDM needs help because it's not as mobile as SMN, and doesn't do anywhere near as much damage as either SMN or BLM. Additionally, RDM might be versatile, but that versatility is completely undesirable and actively discouraged outside of prog. If you you look at it from an end game farm and speed run perspective, you have to take away the heals and take away the raise. Once you do that, RDM is just a subpar caster DPS class.

Also regarding BLM timers, managing it has become a lot easier and a lot less frustrating with many of the QoL changes given, such as a longer Firestarter proc and 8s Transpose. Back when Transpose was 12s, you could definitely argue that maintaining was frustrating as sometimes you would see issues with ping. Highlight BLM timers as a problem with the job now (when it isn't) just shows you prefer RDM for its ease, which is perfectly fine. But once again, actual job difficulty can't be considered outside of prog, since if you're in a farm situation you would be pretty comfortable with your job no matter how hard the job is.

[Malkria]

For a selfish DPS, BLM are in a good spot right now. RDM needs help because it's not as mobile as SMN, and doesn't do anywhere near as much damage as either SMN or BLM. Additionally, RDM might be versatile, but that versatility is completely undesirable and actively discouraged outside of prog. If you you look at it from an end game farm and speed run perspective, you have to take away the heals and take away the raise. Once you do that, RDM is just a subpar caster DPS class.

Also regarding BLM timers, managing it has become a lot easier and a lot less frustrating with many of the QoL changes given, such as a longer Firestarter proc and 8s Transpose. Back when Transpose was 12s, you could definitely argue that maintaining was frustrating as sometimes you would see issues with ping. Highlight BLM timers as a problem with the job now (when it isn't) just shows you prefer RDM for its ease, which is perfectly fine. But once again, actual job difficulty can't be considered outside of prog, since if you're in a farm situation you would be pretty comfortable with your job no matter how hard the job is.

Fist off while the timers may be easier to manage, that doesn't make them fun to play with. Second, if anything goes sideways BLM has literally NO options to help it's team, it's as you say a "selfish class". While RDM does need some damage love, the fact that you can help keep things from going completely off the rails should someone screw up I imagine is more helpful even in a raid then a BLM where you can't even play it properly unless you satisfy a long list of 'requirements' to even get the most out of it. So yes, I would rather take versatility over a BLM's lackluster play-style and it's inherent lack of mobility in a game that demands so much. Even if the RDM is lacking, it is leagues better then anything the BLM has.

As I said before, the biggest thing I feel should be changed about the RDM is that it's melee attack should be in the 300 mark per stage, minimum. Make it more of a burst type DPS, which I feel would fit in with the duel-cast mechanic.

[Maero]

If a Red Mage is raising members multiple times in Savage chances are your team will not meet the dps check.
I agree with everyone here about changes that are needed for Rm. As it currently stands i had to go as Nin as we had too many Red Mages and the other 2 casters are now blm and smn.
Red Mage just does not bring value to Savage.

@ Johaandr, am i reading it correctly that you would want dmg over utility?
So SAM over say Ninja even though some Ninjas can do more damage + bring group utility?
That makes no sense, lol

[Dualgunner]

Really? because the polls I found (even if they were back in heavenward) show that...over half did NOT like the job. Furthermore, if it was such a good job why do you not run into it as much during raids? I tend to see more SMN and RDM then BLM...even more MCH then BLM. There are only three magic casters, so why is it that the BLM seems to be the least popular, and by a significant margin?

I run RDM because I prefer it's archetype (spellblade) to BLM's (nukemage). Also seriously stop yourself trying to use a hw poll to gauge sb popularity; it's seen some significant changes.

RDM is also almost as unpopular as BLM if parse uploads are anything to go by.

[Malkria]

RDM is also almost as unpopular as BLM if parse uploads are anything to go by.

I go by what I run into. Which tends to be RDM far more then BLM, in fact in any given group I join up in chances are there will be a RDM or SMN...but hardly ever a BLM.

[Dualgunner]

I go by what I run into. Which tends to be RDM far more then BLM, in fact in any given group I join up in chances are there will be a RDM or SMN...but hardly ever a BLM.

This is why we don't go by anecdote.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21
In the last two weeks:
Total Black Mage uploads: 15,992
Total Red Mage uploads: 18, 889
Total Summoner uploads: 24,099

For keks and farts:
Total Machinist uploads: 11,450

EDIT Before I'm possibly strawmanned, my claim was:

RDM is also almost as unpopular as BLM if parse uploads are anything to go by.

Which seems to be currently supported.

[Malkria]

This is why we don't go by anecdote.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21
In the last two weeks:
Total Black Mage uploads: 15,992
Total Red Mage uploads: 18, 889
Total Summoner uploads: 24,099

For keks and farts:
Total Machinist uploads: 11,450

Which is why you can't go by parser. First off those who use parser are already per-dispositioned to wanting to stick to the highest numbers over a job that they enjoy. Meaning you are more likely to see parsers from people who are heavily into the meta, which in turn is smaller (as in every game) compared to the population at large. Furthermore, many don't use FFlogs at all so again the numbers will be skewed. While it IS quantifiable data, I hesitate to accept it as representational data.

A much better way to judge the popularity would be to have a simple unbiased poll of what players determine to be their main job and how happy they are with it.

[Dualgunner]

Which is why you can't go by parser. First off those who use parser are already per-dispositioned to wanting to stick to the highest numbers over a job that they enjoy. Meaning you are more likely to see parsers from people who are heavily into the meta, which in turn is smaller (as in every game) compared to the population at large.

If we can't go by recorded data, what can we go by? Also, a recording of >100,000 people is somehow less accurate than a poll of <3000 people which was a hill you were ready to die on a few pages ago?

Meaning you are more likely to see parsers from people who are heavily into the meta, which in turn is smaller (as in every game) compared to the population at large. Furthermore, many don't use FFlogs at all so again the numbers will be skewed. While it IS quantifiable data, I hesitate to accept it as representational data.

Those are heavy inferences, and more weasel words. Do you ever use anything but weasel words? "Many." "Most." Wanna know why they're called weasel words? They're called that because they're just vague enough that you're not technically ever wrong, so you can weasel out of your statements.

A much better way to judge the popularity would be to have a simple unbiased poll of what players determine to be their main job and how happy they are with it.

A poll of <3000 people. No, you're wrong.

[Brightshadow]

I think what Red Mage needs is the following:

Ver-adjustments:
1.) Verfire: Increase Potency to 300. Black Mana Granted ~ 22 (Double of Verthunder)
2.) Verstone: Increase Potency to 300. White Mana Granted ~ 22 (Double of Veraero)
Note: Why should these be weaker than the default ver-spells if they are proc spells, if anything they need to be stronger and we need to be able to enter melee mode much faster because that is our "umbra fire" rotation phase.

Gap Closer & Gap Extender Adjustments:
1.) Corps-to-Corps: Recast lowered to 20s. Potency lowered to 80.
2.) Displacement: Recast lowered to 15s. Potency lowered to 80.
Note: Since you are going to be building your mana's more quickly you need to be able to use these abilities faster. Also slightly reduced potencies because of this, but it's still a DPS gain because you can use it twice per minute.

AOE rotation Adjustments
1.) Enhanced Contre Sixte (New Trait) (Level 56): After executing 3 Enchanted Moulinet your Contre Sixte becomes a proc allowing you to use it once without putting the ability on cooldown, or affecting the current cooldown timer of the ability.
Note: The AOE rotation doesn't have a burst combo finisher like verholy or verflare, so I thought why not make Contre Sixte proc after using your AOE melee rotation as a finisher. It adds additional AOE damage and makes the rotation feel more complete.

Embolden Adjustments
1.) Increases BOTH magical and physical damage of all nearby party members including self by 10%. Both effects are reduced by 10% every 6s.
Note: If we are supposed to be weaker than SMN and BLM due to the support we bring, then allow us to atleast bring a more potent raid utility to the party. We also shouldn't exclude any jobs from our boost that is ridiculous, that's like saying don't bring the BLM to the party because the RDM can't boost their damage. That should never be a discussion.