Whats going on with SE ?

[Vhailor]

You are not telling the truth, you are wasting your time, even the argument that "I complain because I care" doesn't apply anymore, you've decided what to do about the game and the company atm you are simply spreading your propaganda for what? There are countless other games, countless other franchise, many way to actually spend free time instead of staying here and countering other ppl arguments when they don't are like yours.

Why, pray tell, does 'I complain because I care' not apply anymore? Is there some statute of limitations on emotional attachment to a particular title or franchise? By this principle, I think the Cleveland Browns probably shouldn't have fans anymore, yet plenty still exist.... they make their voices heard, rather than jumping ship to a better team like the Patriots (or even the Bengals).

Also, what do you mean by people not telling the truth or spreading propaganda? I rarely see unfounded criticism on the forums. You can argue that people might be wasting their time, and it's certainly reasonable to be frustrated by ever-present dialogue that you'd rather not be exposed to, but calling people liars or propagandists over their opposition to various aspects of XIV is ridiculous.

[RiyahArp]

Eh, people overreact on ptw because many MMOs can really, really do that bad. I mean, PTW and various cash shop gameplay elements can even doom or cull a game's future; what happened to archeage and allods online are two good examples. It's something that needs to be handled with care from the devs because people have been burned badly before.

[ManuelBravo]

Eh, people overreact on ptw because many MMOs canreally, really do that bad. I mean, PTW and various cash shop gameplay elements can even doom or cull a game's future; what happened to archeage and allods online are two good examples. It's something that needs to be handled with care from the devs because people have been burned badly before.

Lets face the facts though, the only reason DLC / Cash shops became popular was do to feed back and people complaining that the game was too hard. Take jump potions is just one of may ways players have influenced cash shops. All that companies did was take advantage to make a profit. We as the community gave them that tool to begin with. We complained, they fix, not fast enough here are your options. Funny thing not many are willing to take responsibility for it. I admit I wanted more retainers, more space, more ways to by pass the endless hours of gathering. SE said ok want more space, want more retainers here is an OPTION. I said cool now it's my choice. Devs do get irritated and in reality I don't blame them.

[RiyahArp]

Oh..it's a bit more complicated than that.

PTW schemes actually are a lot harder than sub ones, not easier. Like in a PTW game endgame is usually doing, again, stuff like how we overmeld armor, but far far worse. Because when you only get a tiny portion of the base spending money on a game, you need to make them spend a lot, and the easiest way is forcing people to buy power. And then that just becomes the new normal.

I mean, if you want to see how bad it can be, This reddit thread gives a few funny examples. Like how one guy soloed another guy's entire guild in pvp. So there is cause to worry for some people, but thankfully this app is nowhere near as bad as it could be in other games. Its just people worry about slippery slopes.

[Remedi]

Eh, people overreact on ptw because many MMOs can really, really do that bad. I mean, PTW and various cash shop gameplay elements can even doom or cull a game's future; what happened to archeage and allods online are two good examples. It's something that needs to be handled with care from the devs because people have been burned badly before.

Yes but the starting situation was very different

[Remedi]

First of all If you leave is because you have reached the breaking point and generally you don't care anymore also frankly I don't believe in this argument whatsoever because it's used to justify rants and pointless arguments most of the time so sorry I'm not buying it
As for not telling the truth I was not referring about real truths as him saying the truth but I was simply saying that he was wasting his time.

Besides I've seen plenty of arguments that are based on half-truths and when I asked some why the extra part of the facts have been ignored usually ppl didn't answer

[Ruf]

First of all If you leave is because you have reached the breaking point and generally you don't care anymore also frankly I don't believe in this argument whatsoever because it's used to justify rants and pointless arguments most of the time so sorry I'm not buying it
As for not telling the truth I was not referring about real truths as him saying the truth but I was simply saying that he was wasting his time.

Besides I've seen plenty of arguments that are based on half-truths and when I asked some why the extra part of the facts have been ignored usually ppl didn't answer

Oh but we answer you Remedi, Its just not the answers you'd like & so you go on with more questions after you clearly said that we didnt respond to the question, you've dismissed my full blown arguments before, & no they wernt half truths.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Also enough with the charade about the game code, it won't be fixed, no1 will really accept of not playing for many days for them to fix it, I would like to ppl to be more mindful of what they really want and not simply wanting wishful fantasies, which many ppl have been triying to explain.
Things can be better? sure, but depends if they can be realized or not, if they cannot be it's best to either decide if the game is worth as is or not

What do you mean by "not playing for many days for them to fix it"? Do you think that in order for them to update backend code that it requires the entire live game to be shutdown for the duration? A simple yes or no will suffice.

And how SPECIFICALLY would you suggest they fix these "issues" with dropping content cycles, increasing player subs, or even further micro transactions? Are you going to donate your time and money to SE and fix their issues? Are you willing to redo the game from scratch? You know what's not SE's fault? The fact that you are not wealthy/skilled/capable of making the MMO that you really want on your own. So you come here and demand they change how they choose to run their game because you want something different from what from their side is clearly working... want a PERFECT final fantasy MMO? Maybe try pushing ideas for ff16/17/18/whatever the next mmo they try...

1) Speaking plainly? I'd restructure gearing in its entirety. With how mundane it is, there's absolutely no excuse for it to contain that much data that it's prohibitive to further systems design.

I'm not sure what your background is professionally, but as someone who works (not in game design, but financial system design/implementation) with these types of intricacies I can say there are definitely viable solutions. I'd need to know what their development pipeline/processes look like as well as their architectural specifications to make a more educated guess on an actual solution though.

If I took place in the ARR project, one of the MAJOR milestones I wouldn't have let get lost would be identifying/implementing a long-term solution to transitioning the code-base to a more modern platform. I've seen firsthand what happens with a legacy codebase 20 years down the line and it isn't pretty, or cheap, to rectify.

2) Don't be a petulant child. I'm not here "demanding" anything. I'm offering insight into my opinion on decisions made. You're more than welcome to refute any of my posts with your own insight/examples, but spare me the white knight routine please.

3) Just because something is "clearly" working doesn't mean there aren't GLARING flaws or issues on the horizon. If you don't see them that's fine, but it doesn't mean they aren't there. It also doesn't mean something can't be improved either.

Why are we talking about database issues? The "server limitations" that are mentioned by Square Enix are universally about how much data is transferred to and from the server. It's not a question of being able to store more inventory slots, for instance, it's the ability to process more data per user every time inventory is loaded or updated. Whether the problem is due to initial bad design or something else, solving it is not simple.

We don't need to say it's OK to have these limitations because of their implementation, but we should acknowledge the level of effort that would be required to fix them. They're probably never going to be fixed in this game, so if that's a deal-breaker, maybe play something else?

Because the way they store data has proven problematic to future systems design. Obviously fixing it isn't easy, but it's a necessary evil. It's going to come to a head eventually. They can't delay it indefinitely.

I'd hate to see a game I love become stale because they're hamstrung by a legacy codebase that all the experienced developers have left behind to work on more exciting new ventures and it's too late/late/costly to fix. I'm vocal about it because I don't think it's too late yet.

[Talraen]

Because the way they store data has proven problematic to future systems design. Obviously fixing it isn't easy, but it's a necessary evil. It's going to come to a head eventually. They can't delay it indefinitely.

I'd hate to see a game I love become stale because they're hamstrung by a legacy codebase that all the experienced developers have left behind to work on more exciting new ventures and it's too late/late/costly to fix. I'm vocal about it because I don't think it's too late yet.

Again, I don't think "storing" data is the issue. But your point is well taken, there are definitely issues that affect future design. That said, I don't see how the game will become stale simply because character inventory is permanently locked at 140 slots. They can add retainers, chocobo saddlebags, and who knows what else ad infinitum without worrying about the issues that prevent inventory from growing. They will have an issue if we get past 35 classes/jobs, since the armoury is also linked to this issue and will need to be expanded again. That does give them a few years to address the problem. Assuming the game remains popular long enough.

What specifically are you worried about becoming "stale" due to these issues?

[kikix12]

Again, I don't think "storing" data is the issue.

And tell me...why is there so much data transferred?! I will ask you this. The developers specifically said that whenever a player enters an instance, their entire inventory is sent between server and player. Why? I'd like to know why, when I do not use inventory, when I don't even open it, it is sent along with a ton of other (more or less necessary data), instead of doing it only when I DO open it or get a first drop? All that needs to be sent related to inventory is what is on the hotbars, like potions. The game should check whether the potions are really there, but this too is just a precaution there's nothing fishy going on. If you had potions before entering the instance, it is obvious you have them when entering it as well, so technically it could assume you do and just work with the inventory once you do use one of them.

Same with character gears. Why are they loaded?! When you attack, defend, cast spell...What matters is not your gear. It's your stats. Your gear should be loaded visually (on your character)...and that's all. Bits of it should be loaded (and therefore data related to them transferred) when you open your character screen (icons) and then when you hover over it (tooltips). Nothing ever needs to be loaded or otherwise sent between servers/clients until you actually switch that gear. This is so much more glaring when often you will not even have your gears stats due to being synced down.


There is a lot of data sent at once completely unnecessarily. Instead of doing it gradually as client/server demands it, it's packed tightly and sent back and forth "because it can come in useful". Sorry, but I prefer to have even half a second delay in seeing the icons of my inventory the first time I open it in an instance (if I even do that) than spend half a minute on the loading screen instead of few seconds. And have them be able to play with inventory space instead of it being impossible.

Another part is that really, the game could go to 64-bit and start more heavily utilizing RAM. If not that, then at least start using hard-drive to temporarily store frequently used data, and operate on that instead of sending tons of stuff between clients and servers. For example, tooltips for items could be loaded once when you start the game and saved on hard-drive (to remove PING issues, and that's assuming they are not already stored on hard drive) and never need to be transferred again during that session unless modified by adding a materia.

So yes, whether it is the physical storage of data or its transfer, there are ways to make it more efficient and they are doing it in a way that makes further growth more difficult (according to them...impossible).