The virtual currency "Moogle Coins" in the FFXIV Companion app must be removed

[Istaru]

Honestly, it's this, or sub increases for everyone. I'd rather the ability to choose to pay more than be forced to, wouldn't you? The price of a sub for an mmo has been static for more than 20 years, I don't think anything else has ever remained the same price for that long.

Is it this or a subscription fee increase?

Why do you say that?

[PonifiedBeast]

I feel Square Enix is falling into the business tactics of Electronic Arts lately

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-LE0ycgkBQ

And with how big the controversy was with EA and Battlefront, they still do the exact same shit with little to no change. With FF14 being a lot smaller, I doubt they'll listen at all despite how much a lot of us are against it. No one has given Square any other problems with their mobile games and microtransactions so they are just going to keep pushing forward.

[silverlunarfox]

And with how big the controversy was with EA and Battlefront, they still do the exact same shit with little to no change. With FF14 being a lot smaller, I doubt they'll listen at all despite how much a lot of us are against it. No one has given Square any other problems with their mobile games and microtransactions so they are just going to keep pushing forward.

This. The FFXIV isnt nearly large enough to make a dent unlike EA with battlefront which saw quite a massive hit. That and EA HATES bad press.

Square won't change it, as much as I hate to admit it.

[Tridus]

And with how big the controversy was with EA and Battlefront, they still do the exact same shit with little to no change. With FF14 being a lot smaller, I doubt they'll listen at all despite how much a lot of us are against it. No one has given Square any other problems with their mobile games and microtransactions so they are just going to keep pushing forward.

Only until people stop buying. This cost money to develop. If nobody subscribes, the message gets sent pretty clearly that we don't want more flagrant cash grabs.

Speak with your wallet. It's the language all corporate management types understand.

[PonifiedBeast]

Only until people stop buying. This cost money to develop. If nobody subscribes, the message gets sent pretty clearly that we don't want more flagrant cash grabs.

Speak with your wallet. It's the language all corporate management types understand.

Only problem with that is that is that people will do it anyway. Micro-transactions are extremely popular, and is a lot more so in JA. Square has a ton of mobile games that are JA exclusive. In a business standpoint, they'd be stupid to not want to bank on it.

[Aerlana]

Honestly, it's this, or sub increases for everyone. I'd rather the ability to choose to pay more than be forced to, wouldn't you?

I take the sub increase, and no cash shop.
Sub = clear about what they get
Cash shop = full fog...


lets take example with fictiv numbers.
10 euros sub fee, 1 million players, 20% taxes => 8 million money
5 euros sub fee, some cash shop item with various prices. and same taxes. 1 million players => 4 million to... unknown. can 12 million, 20 million... dont know

And be sure that this fog allow them to take really more than needed. Else with a sub, where everyone can get a good idea on how much it gives to company, you can on other side see how much they spend on the game, at least a good idea of it... So if you see they spend 1 million, but get 8 million, so 7 mliion benefits BUT the game get many server matter (not enough inventory, and other eureka fun things for example?) you know you are in right to cry and protest. not with cash shop...


SO i prefer a higher sub than this...

Last part : when cash shop began, was rare addition, only 2 retainer. Now we have nearly monthly addition in cash shop, 7 retainer, the veteran system disappeared. and in 4.3? we get this app, adding a third subscription (game / retainer / app) and some other cash grab with moogle coins... I dont see a "vertuous" way there...


ALL this is why i prefer sub system as customer... so yes, i prefer a higher sub...

Only problem with that is that is that people will do it anyway. Micro-transactions are extremely popular, and is a lot more so in JA. Square has a ton of mobile games that are JA exclusive. In a business standpoint, they'd be stupid to not want to bank on it.

So? we shut our mouths, and play? Because this seems an already lost battle, dont bother to battle? ...

[Squintina]

Only problem with that is that is that people will do it anyway. Micro-transactions are extremely popular, and is a lot more so in JA. Square has a ton of mobile games that are JA exclusive. In a business standpoint, they'd be stupid to not want to bank on it.

I do think (and this is one of the few things mentioned in the JP forums, which has less than 2 pages about the app since the live letter announcement, not exactly a huge sample size sadly :/ They're not being super talkative in the forums about this topic - one way or the other)
that another part of this is the amount of money expected.

The scope of the monetization is the premium sub of 500 yen (5$ a month) + occasional moogle coins (price undisclosed) for having more MB access, retainer inventory access, double saddlebag, and the ability to purchase an extra retainer (which still needs to be paid separately).

Maybe if they had made it 100 yen / 1$ a month, with no purchasable moogle coins, there would be a bit less backlash. There'd still be some, but probably less.
Like I'd probably have been "ok" enough with that to not bother complaining about it.

It's the same reason why I don't buy 24$ mounts on the cash shop. No one can convince me a mount is worth 2 months of a sub, or half an expansion. But if it had been 2-5$, I might have been like "well...They probably want some extra funding to work on the next expansion and expand their team...and that carby does look cute....and my wallet's right next to me...."

Simply speaking. These micro transactions aren't micro enough, especially when being put next to us still having to pay for a sub and expansions. At least, that's how I feel.

@SE: If you want people like me to open up about micro transactions in a sub game, please make prices that are easier for us to rationalize. If you price it right, the increased volume of buyers will offset the loss in profit per transaction (and it'll make it easier to accept that most new cash shop items are per-character instead of account-wide if you had smaller prices)

[Tridus]

Honestly, it's this, or sub increases for everyone. I'd rather the ability to choose to pay more than be forced to, wouldn't you? The price of a sub for an mmo has been static for more than 20 years, I don't think anything else has ever remained the same price for that long.

Most games have ditched subs entirely because it's hard to keep people. FFXIV is blessed to have a steady source of income from subs. If it's not enough, I'd rather they increase it if its actually not enough to fund the game, but I'm not buying that line of reasoning either. Are we seeing value for sub dollar right now when we're losing things like live letter translation and the thing is half about cash grab apps?

The problem with raising more money via cash shops and P2W style apps is that they encourage more of that. Money from subs sends the message "make more content to keep people subscribed". Money from cash shops sends the message "make more stuff that will sell in the cash shop".

Those are very different things and are in conflict with each other when someone makes a cool new outfit and has to decide "does this go in some hard to achieve thing in game, or up for $20?" It has a direct impact on game development if the cash shop and apps are prioritized.

[silverlunarfox]

Most games have ditched subs entirely because it's hard to keep people. FFXIV is blessed to have a steady source of income from subs. If it's not enough, I'd rather they increase it if its actually not enough to fund the game, but I'm not buying that line of reasoning either. Are we seeing value for sub dollar right now when we're losing things like live letter translation and the thing is half about cash grab apps?
...
It has a direct impact on game development if the cash shop and apps are prioritized.

I would take a sub increase over an app. I get that the prices for sub games haven't budged much and I'm sure game budgets are tight because of it (if a budget is based purely off base subs alone).

I still am ok with the cash shop so long as it remains that its not taking away from the game itself. And I'm starting to think it is, as is their other games.

[Tridus]

The scope of the monetization is the premium sub of 500 yen (5$ a month) + occasional moogle coins (price undisclosed) for having more MB access, retainer inventory access, double saddlebag, and the ability to purchase an extra retainer (which still needs to be paid separately).

Maybe if they had made it 100 yen / 1$ a month, with no purchasable moogle coins, there would be a bit less backlash. There'd still be some, but probably less.
Like I'd probably have been "ok" enough with that to not bother complaining about it.

Yep. The pricing is based around the idea that most people won't pay it, but those that will are not price sensitive. Getting those people (the industry terminology is "whales") to pay more is more profitable than setting a lower price and hoping to get more people paying. (I used to work at a gas station that did this. They were the only one in a certain area and always charged more knowing some people were willing to pay rather than driving down the road. When you make 3x the profit per sale, you don't need nearly as many sales. And given how thin margins on gas are, a few cents makes a real difference in your profit per sale.)

It's the precise model P2W mobile apps use and this app is following it, although what it does isn't very interesting. As soon as you think you will only ever get the whales to pay any amount, you jack the price up because they'll pay it.

It's the same reason why I don't buy 24$ mounts on the cash shop. No one can convince me a mount is worth 2 months of a sub, or half an expansion. But if it had been 2-5$, I might have been like "well...They probably want some extra funding to work on the next expansion and expand their team...and that carby does look cute....and my wallet's right next to me...."

Simply speaking. These micro transactions aren't micro enough, especially when being put next to us still having to pay for a sub and expansions. At least, that's how I feel.

Yep. But see above. People saw the mount and some folks wanted it at any price. If you charge $5, you need what, five extra buyers to make the same money? That's why it is priced so high.

I've got a few mog station items outfit wise, but I'm thinking its time to stop. The message they seem to be taking from it is that it should be a priority, and that's a problem.