Hypothetical Summoner Rebuild

[SchrodingersWaffle]

Sorry if it came off overly sassy. I overthink things at 4-8am. It was fun to really dig into though. Hope it points you in the right direction!

Haha it's fine. I'm glad you thought it was fun to dig into, I thought it was fun to make. I'm already working on a revision based on the feedback I'm getting.

[Kaimishi]

Hi. I would love indeed to summon more primals. If I understand correctly you proposal to remove the dots and instead focus on pet dance. Now I've trouble visualizing what the flow would be. At the current state, the smn have a 197 sec cycle and uses AF stacks mainly fester to proc ww. The job is kind of busy and I've a hard time imaging where and when those pet swap would happen. Can you give us an insight of the rotation and possible flow of the job and how it would sync with raid buffs? Thanks.

[SchrodingersWaffle]

Hi. I would love indeed to summon more primals. If I understand correctly you proposal to remove the dots and instead focus on pet dance. Now I've trouble visualizing what the flow would be. At the current state, the smn have a 197 sec cycle and uses AF stacks mainly fester to proc ww. The job is kind of busy and I've a hard time imaging where and when those pet swap would happen. Can you give us an insight of the rotation and possible flow of the job and how it would sync with raid buffs? Thanks.

Excellent question. Right so, the idea is that it actually plays like a hybridization of current SMN and 3.X SMN, with DoT management replaced with Buff management. First off, I have Aetherflow on a 30s CD. So you have Command, which is your Aetherflow spender. This is what builds your initial stacks. However, like in Heavensward, these stacks and PrimalTrance don't lock you out of Aetherflow. Nor does Summoning one of the Elder Primals lock you out of Primal Trance, which is just a renamed and slightly retooled DWT. However, like in Stormblood, these stacks don't have a duration. The key difference here is that you're going to have a second GCD to keep track of with Pet abilities. So you are essentially double weaving your Pet's rotation during your own rotation.

So Evoke is your filler spell in case that wasn't blindingly obvious.

With a patient tank using Enkindle pre-pull you can start a fight with 3 Aetherflow, 3 Aethertrails, and a full Trance gauge.

So let's assume, hypothetically speaking that you have a NIN and DRG immediately pop Trick Attack and Battle Litany on the pull. Now since this is single target you're going to be using Ifirit.

So pre-pull you're going to Primal Trance, Summon Odin, Spur , Rouse and Twin Summon which gets both of your states going at the same time, and then Animate, which gets your pet buffs up immediately.

On the pull you're going to start with Ifrit's Flaming Crash combo which get's the debuff going, and gets Ifirit into range of the boss. At this point Trick Attack and Battle Litany should have gone out.

You have 10s of Vulnerability Up and 15s of Crit Up. With the 2.5s GCD on Ifirit you should be able to get an entire combo in before it falls off. During this time you're obviously going to be using Command on CD. While that's happening you're going, in no particular order, Command Elder Primal, Zantetsuken, Akh-Morn and Unleash. So long as these all happen before Trick Attack falls off, you should be fine. You should then Invoke with about 2s left on Trick Attack. Now you should have 1 Stack of Aetherflow, 2 Aethertrails, no Trance, about 3-5s left on Odin, Rouse and Spur, about 30s left on Twin Summon and Aetherflow off CD.

After this point you're entering regular territory. You use Command and then Aetherflow so you're at 3 Aethertrails and 3 Aetherflow. Now you use Primal Trance again., putting you at 0 Aethertrails, 3 Aetherflow and 1 Trance Gauge as soon as it ends.

So TL;DR, it should flow very similar to HW SMN, where you're trying to chain DWTs, with the addition of the Elder Primal stage.

Evoke as filler.
Command as Aetherflow Spender
Pet abilites on a seperate GCD.

Most of your abilities CDs should line up pretty nicely with both Trick Attack and Battle Litany.

[FeliAiko]

Once again another "this is what SMN should be like" post, where the poster views unnecessary button bloat and making the SMN be able to do damn near everything makes for a good MMO Job.

So please explain to us how a Job with the following:

- Increased damage and crit up (Invigorate)
- Haste (Infuse)
- Up to 30% Main stat boost (Enkindle)
- 2 damage steroids (Primal Trance, Rouse)
- Trick Attack, Refresh and Tactician... all on the same button (Aether Overdrive)
- Shield that gives full MP/TP restore when damaged (Energize)
- Ability to raise 3 people at once (Phoenix)
- Free 1000 potency HoT
- Highest damaging base potency skill in the game (Zantetsuken)
- Etc.

Would fit right in XIV, as opposed to outright breaking the game? I mean, that's just from what I glanced through. I even caught a part where the SMN even gets a 6s Immunity or something? Like, what reason would a DPS of all things need a Hallowed Ground for? I mean, having 2 Tank pets isn't enough? That you can have out at the same time? The Caster itself has to get a Tank CD too?

Even worse is how you say that this concept of yours would flow like 3.x SMN... except I don't recall 3.x SMN design being this jack-of-all-trades, master of everything Job you've envisioned here.

[SchrodingersWaffle]

Once again another "this is what SMN should be like" post, where the poster views unnecessary button bloat and making the SMN be able to do damn near everything makes for a good MMO Job.

So please explain to us how a Job with the following:

- Increased damage and crit up (Invigorate)
- Haste (Infuse)
- Up to 30% Main stat boost (Enkindle)
- 2 damage steroids (Primal Trance, Rouse)
- Trick Attack, Refresh and Tactician... all on the same button (Aether Overdrive)
- Shield that gives full MP/TP restore when damaged (Energize)
- Ability to raise 3 people at once (Phoenix)
- Free 1000 potency HoT
- Highest damaging base potency skill in the game (Zantetsuken)
- Etc.

Would fit right in XIV, as opposed to outright breaking the game? I mean, that's just from what I glanced through. I even caught a part where the SMN even gets a 6s Immunity or something? Like, what reason would a DPS of all things need a Hallowed Ground for? I mean, having 2 Tank pets isn't enough? That you can have out at the same time? The Caster itself has to get a Tank CD too?

Even worse is how you say that this concept of yours would flow like 3.x SMN... except I don't recall 3.x SMN design being this jack-of-all-trades, master of everything Job you've envisioned here.

Do you actually have anything constructive to say?

[Jukebox12]

Do you actually have anything constructive to say?

I find this comment laughable

[FeliAiko]

Do you actually have anything constructive to say?

So you're unable to explain how a Job with potentially 100% uptime Balance, Arrow and Spear simultaneously (along with a 'Tri-Disaster' version), 2.x WAR's Berserk (without the Pacification), AND its own Trick Attack would not make this game a Joke then?

Your SMN is a Mary Sue SMN, with no original ideas to boot. It just looks at what other Jobs have and cherry picks them for itself. If it's not doing that, it badly re-skins the existing tools that XIV SMN has but throws in silly damage numbers, or meaningless flair like 'elemental damage' when no elemental wheel exists in meaningful content. The latter wouldn't even work in Eureka because the Magia Wheel is what impacts "elemental damage" there.

[Kaimishi]

So you're unable to explain how a Job with potentially 100% uptime Balance, Arrow and Spear simultaneously (along with a 'Tri-Disaster' version), 2.x WAR's Berserk (without the Pacification), AND its own Trick Attack would not make this game a Joke then?.

I didn't even look at potency since it's not really what matters here. What matters is the flow and the design. Which is summoning pets to buff dance and that looks fun. It also is completely new to ff14 - no, bard is not even close . if you take out the dots damage you way wanna need a compensation elsewhere (-20% dmg) , I assume that's the reason for all these potencies. Besides, all the smn I've met preferred it in 2.x. So, I understand you've an idea of the flow. Maybe that would be nice to calculate the expected potency on like 3 min without raid buff.

[FeliAiko]

I didn't even look at potency since it's not really what matters here. What matters is the flow and the design. It also is completely new to ff14 - no, bard is not even close .

Nothing here is new. It's either already present (i.e. stolen) on other Jobs or just ridiculous attempts to make sure the Job covers every element of the game. It has every source of damage steroid, a tank immunity, can raise more people at once than 2 healers combined... AND it has CDs that can sync with the meta Job's raid buffs? Wow, it gets to be like SAM in terms of damage AND like NIN/DRG in terms of raid utility? Totally not a broken design concept in light of how SE sets up Jobs in this game.

if you take out the dots damage you way wanna need a compensation elsewhere (-20% dmg)

Well, you start by not reducing the Caster damage GCD suite to just a Ruin II at 50 potency, and instead spread that damage out across the existing kit OP claims to be retaining the flow/design of (because removing Ruin III, Ruin IV and Tri-bind and nerfing Ruin II to even below 2.x damage is certainly preserving the Job design). Instead they went for the cheap, lazy solution that all bad Job ideas resort to: throwing in nonsensical damage buffs and utility at it

I assume that's the reason for all these potencies.

I doubt the OP his/herself can explain their reasoning behind the potency values. They were quick to preface the thread with 'I'm not a theorycrafter blah blah'.

Maybe that would be nice to calculate the expected potency on like 3 min without raid buff.

That's on the OP to dig into. However, they did say that they're not a mathematician so I wouldn't count on them doing so.

[Kaimishi]

Nothing here is new. Totally not a broken design concept in light of how SE sets up Jobs in this game.

I agree to all that. the buffs proposed are not new, however buff dance has never been in ff14 before. Even tho the buffs as they\\'re are, are completely broken, I still like the idea of having a summon rotation, with some buffs or not. I kind of push those potency questions to help op to realize it\\'s hard to come with a balanced concept without numbers. I understand OP wants to get thoughts about something she/he worked on for a lot of time. No need to get that hard on him/her.

Even tho I like playing the job, I think it\\'s a complete mess - patchwork of whatever. Apart from Demi-bahamut, there\\'s no real summoner vibe in the job, at all.