Please fix protect

[Tridus]

It's a free fire and forget buff. What's the problem?

That in itself is the problem. Who thinks that fire and forget extended duration buffs are even remotely interesting in this day and age of game development?

Any skill that's best used with a macro that casts it and then replaces it with something more interesting to use is inherently flawed by design.

PvP Protect is inherently better designed because I get to think about when to use it and that actually matters. PvE Protect is effectively a passive thing that I put up and then forget exists for the entire dungeon.

[Seraphor]

It's a free fire and forget buff. What's the problem?

You could remove it entirely, increase all defenses by 15%, and functionally thered be no difference.

[Llus]

You could remove it entirely, increase all defenses by 15%, and functionally thered be no difference.

We could also make everyone's self-regen more powerful and remove all casted regens and functionally there'd be no difference. Prior to SB, WHM was the only class that gained access to protect w/o having to burn a role slot so if you had a WHM in your party you could get away with not having to bring it. All these great changes SB introduced like reducing the complexity of skill chains, removing the requirement of a 2nd class before you get your job stone and the really super confusing role actions that allowed you to select something like stoneskin for a PLD o.O??? So this is what you get when you beg for easier content, easier classes and less flexibility in your role builds. You get useless, limited or 1 use role actions some of which have a niche use (silence, anticipation, break, low blow, etc). All the improved "choice" you get with class based role actions is simply smoke in mirrors. The traited version of cross-class actions in HW and SB meant bringing certain classes gave a benefit and since SE has made all classes in SB 100% equal in terms of utility and synergy you no longer have to worry about taking a WHM for their bonus to stoneskin and can take the classes you really want to play with, not because ASTs and SCHs have more utility or anything it's all about player choice and who you chose to take protect over cleric stance. /s

I'm not saying protect is worthless, it's very useful and required in a lot of content. The extra defense down death penalty is a key part of the game play - I miss the older penalty that would affect all your stats and not just your primary stat; it made death an even more punishing mechanic since you had to babysit someone with weakness until it was gone and in many cases forced a change in strategy if a tank or healer died. The issue I see is that you're left cucking one person for certain mechanics. For healers, it's always "who's going to take protect". For certain mechanics, "who's going to take silence if we don't have a ninja?" or Can the monk silence pls? The fact that at level 50 we had 5 cross-class skills and at level 70 we still only get 5 role slots is the real issue. For the majority of content, there's a set 5 role actions that you MUST take and again in many cases there are 6 role actions that you MUST take so you're left depending/forcing someone to drop their 5th action for the required 6th putting them front and center when they fail to use it when they're supposed to. This was stated before the SB role changes, but the role actions are an illusion of choice designed to make it look as though all jobs in every role are equal, but all it does is force you to change your role actions for each fight just in case nobody else takes it.

[Seraphor]

Better version...how? In dungeon content, that 15% boost helps when you have tanks doing wall-to-wall pulls. Make protect any higher than what it is, and it becomes a very mandatory role action. There are healers who will cast protect at the start of an instance, and then immediately switch out to a desire role action. It's not as if you need to keep protect on your role action the entire time.

I'll admit, I'm confused about the second weakness penalty. Can that be explained?

Its already a mandatory skill. Most dungeons won't start until the healer uses protect.
Like you said, they then have the hassle of changing their role skills.

It's a weakness penalty because that 15% additional defence becomes a baseline, and when you die, the healer isn't likely to stop and recast protect until the fight is over, if at all.

[KaivaC]

Its already a mandatory skill. Most dungeons won't start until the healer uses protect.
Like you said, they then have the hassle of changing their role skills.

It's a weakness penalty because that 15% additional defence becomes a baseline, and when you die, the healer isn't likely to stop and recast protect until the fight is over, if at all.

I ... see....

I don't have a counter argument for the weakness penalty thing. I don't agree with certain things, but can't really argue against the logic either.

But in regards to protect itself, wouldn't making it stronger turn it into a broken skill? I might have to wait for the OP to respond, though, as I'm waiting to see what exactly they think should happen with protect. I imagine that with all encounters in the game, simply lowering the damage by 15% (this includes up to Savage and Extremes), would be a bit more work than what the devs are willing to do.

[Seraphor]

I ... see....

I don't have a counter argument for the weakness penalty thing. I don't agree with certain things, but can't really argue against the logic either.

But in regards to protect itself, wouldn't making it stronger turn it into a broken skill? I might have to wait for the OP to respond, though, as I'm waiting to see what exactly they think should happen with protect. I imagine that with all encounters in the game, simply lowering the damage by 15% (this includes up to Savage and Extremes), would be a bit more work than what the devs are willing to do.

Fixing something doesn't mean making it more powerful. It needs some kind of functional change.

Perhaps reducing it's duration and making it instant cast, basically becoming part of a healer "rotation" (if there is such a thing) instead of a one-and-done skill.

Another thing they could do is introduce Shell. Have Protect mitigate physical damage and Shell mitigate magical damage, and make them mutually exclusive.
The problem with this however is you then have two mandatory role skills instead of one.

The real problem is that Protect is a role skill at all really. It should have remained a WHM job skill, with Shell, as instant cast mitigation spells that the WHM has to 'dance' around depending on if incoming damage is magical or physical, which would give WHM a unique instant cast mechanic to weave between GCDs. Then balance this with similar but different mitigation skills on the other healers, or increased healing potency to account for a lack of Protect.
But apparently 'balance' means 'homogenisation'.

[Tint]

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being forced to press the button more often is not really a fix.

and while switching between protect and shell may sound like a nice idea at first, the game design doesn't allow that.

all aoe damage is magical, or some kind of a fixed damage wich you can't reduce. the defense stats of the classes are balanced around that. meeles have more life, but less m-defense, while casters have less life and more m-defense. a physical aoe will wipe out the casters, while meeles with their higher physical defense and life will survive with no problem.

so shell > protect in nearly all cases, except on the tank maybe, but then it should be better turned into a single target shield (but do we really need any more of them?).

[Seraphor]

being forced to press the button more often is not really a fix.

But it will feel like you're actually doing something with it, it'll be more satisfying to use.
That's the idea around every single skill in the game.
You could boil all healers down to one mitigation skill with a 30m duration, one HoT with a 30m duration and a GCD heal and it would all work out fine and balanced, but it wouldn't be interesting or satisfying to play.

On Shell/Protect mutual exclusivity and damage types: You're right, if these were still role skills.

But I think if they were a WHM only mechanic, they wouldn't be seen as strictly mandatory (because AST doesn't always get the Bole out and SCH doesn't always get a Critlo) so it would simply be a weaving skill used as a bonus, and would make WHM more interesting to play.

[Limonia]

They should just make Protect a WHM only ability that works similar to the PVP version. Increase defense or reduce damage taken for a few seconds for all party members on a 60 seconds cooldown or so. Like an AoE Divine Benison.

And as WHM already has less buttons than AST and SCH (as WHM I have space for all cross role skills while as SCH and AST I need macros to switch the hotbar slot between some of them), they could actually also make Protect AND Shell as separate abilities, one for physical and one for magical damage. I don't think that it would be so overpowered if the buff wasn't that strong. AST and SCH both have access to regens AND shields, so why should WHM not also have an AoE shield-like ability?

[KaivaC]

I don't think that it would be so overpowered if the buff wasn't that strong. AST and SCH both have access to regens AND shields, so why should WHM not also have an AoE shield-like ability?

Because whereas you are suggesting that WHMs can carry Protect and Shell as separate abilities in their kit, AST at the very least do not have the option of switching between regen and shield while in combat. Outside of the 4-man dungeons, ASTS are screwed because we are already limited to a single sect in combat. It wouldn't balance out very well at all.