The Unofficial "Why is this still a thing" Thread

[GunksFoy]

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It's not a core part of their damage though. That's like saying Contagion is a core part of a Black Mages damage. It is a core part of Dragoon's damage, but it is additional damage for a bard or machinist. They are support jobs. And if Fflogs is to be believed, Machinists already outdps Dragoons at virtually every percentile, so I don't think a support job needs any more pDPS.

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As I already explained to you, Dragoon does not have more utility than a Ninja. With dual ranged yes, because optimal synergy. But if there are no ranged in the party, a Ninja blows Dragoon away in total DPS. Besides that, Dragoon's pDPS is middling at best. Only just above Ninja at nearly every percentile.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's not a core part of their damage though. That's like saying Contagion is a core part of a Black Mages damage. It is a core part of Dragoon's damage, but it is additional damage for a bard or machinist. They are support jobs. And if Fflogs is to be believed, Machinists already outdps Dragoons at virtually every percentile, so I don't think a support job needs any more pDPS.

... That's silly logic, and only creates the meta lock already established. Contagion has a 60s CD, lasts only 15s and benefits casters, healers and PLD's Holy Spirit. Bear in mind, all five potential candidates have cast bars, thus will only benefit from roughly five casts over Contagion's duration. Disembowel has 100% uptime. They are not remotely comparable. Support doesn't mean gimp their DPS lest we apply that same logic to other jobs. In fact, if we're going with the logic support jobs don't need more pDPS, why does Ninja have slashing? It's the melee support equivalent yet... isn't reliant on another job for nearly 300 DPS. Those Machinists all have Dragoons, which is the whole point. In terms of personal or raid dps, neither Bard nor Machinist will touch Ninja or Dragoon unless they have piercing.

While I still think they should remove Piercing or have more than one job apply. If they did simply opt to give it to physical ranged, all that changes is people are more willing to sub out Dragoon for Monk or Samurai. And Bard/Machinist players aren't gimped because a static decided to recruit something besides Dragoon.

3 Casters and a Dragoon, their utility and rDPS is cut significantly.

Not by as much as you may think. Trick Attack benefits casters significantly less due to cast bars whereas Litany is a straight Crit buff that will stack with Chain Stratagem. Regardless, this is a bit disingenuous as you'll hardly see double casters let alone triple.

[GunksFoy]

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You're correct about Bard not touching them without it, Bard could probably due with a small buff or maybe having it added. However, I've maintained throughout this entire thread I don't think BOTH ranged should get the debuff, but I'm open to another class getting it. Machinist however, is FAR above Ninja. And these are averages over all parses, and not every single Machinist ever has a Dragoon. Machinist would fall behind Dragoon without it, but likely still be ahead of both Ninja and Red Mage. Ninja is the support, and the Slashing debuff is part of it's support. Piercing debuff is part of it's support. Bard and Machinist have plenty of support skills. Also, 15s will net you at least 6 casts, probably 7, more if you have Ley Lines or decent SS or use your oGCDs for Smn, but that's semantics. Lastly, fine, slashing debuff is not a core part of Paladin DPS. It's added bonus.

And that's kind of silly logic, because cast bars take just as long as GCD skills. Black mages don't have oGCD skills, that's true, but Smn does. And Black Mage hits significantly harder during any given GCD than any other class, so more efficiency per cast, thus greater benefit from the 4-5 casts under Trick. And Trick Attack stacks with any other damage up buff, i.e. Contagion. And that isn't the point, I only used 3 casters because it was quicker and easier to type than a full party comp. Swap 3 casters with literally any party comp other than Drg, phys rang x2. 15% crit is a significantly smaller buff than flat out 10% dps. It's a good buff, don't get me wrong, but it's not as good as Trick Attack.