The Unofficial "Why is this still a thing" Thread

[Dualgunner]

Do you realize how many jobs could be considered dependent on BRD's damage boost by that same logic ?

Please, tell me specifically what job offers another job a 5% dps increase with near 100% uptime.

EDIT: Before you answer "Slashing" let me amend:

What job offers another job 5% dps increase with near 100% uptime that they cannot apply themselves? Paladin and Dark Knight share in this problem, true, but the situation would be more similar if WAR was the only job that applied slashing debuff.

It doesn't matter how much disenbowel give to a single job. What matters is how much it gives to the raid. Do you have some calculation on how much Foe's Requiem and Battle Voice give to the raid, considering everyone benefit from it ?

Piercing gives nothing to the raid. It gives 5% damage boost to two jobs in particular. In the meta, with both BRD and MCH, DRG's rDPS outdoes NIN's rDPS, all while DRG still outdoes NIN in pDPS. At the moment DRG is actually one of the strongest rDPS jobs in the game because of the meta.

[HyoMinPark]

Do you realize how many jobs could be considered dependent on BRD's damage boost by that same logic ?

It doesn't matter how much disenbowel give to a single job. What matters is how much it gives to the raid. Do you have some calculation on how much Foe's Requiem and Battle Voice give to the raid, considering everyone benefit from it ?

I do, actually. In the same parse I am referencing, Foe’s gave the raid (8 people) 198.8 additional DPS. Battle Voice gave 118.4. Those values are the for entire raid. Disembowel’s value (260.4) was for 1 job. Looking at individual values (per party member) of how much Foe’s and BV gave them are even lower (the DRG got 41.3 from Foe’s, 32.4 from BV; the NIN 44.9 from Foe’s, 26.2 from BV; to use two examples).

Disembowel buffs 2 jobs (BRD/MCH) outside of the DRG that applies it. It doesn’t buff the entire raid in terms of individual damage. There’s a difference between a buff like Disembowel and a buff like Battle Voice or Foe’s or Trick Attack.

This seems intentionally disingenuous though. Dragoon would still retain those abilities, so while what you're saying is technically accurate, you would still lose 150-200 dps not having a dragoon even if they gave you a piercing debuff. I don't really have a stance on this, but it definitely seems like you're trying to deceive people by inflating the number you claim to lose by not having it.

I’m sorry, but excuse me? I’m trying to deceive people by inflating numbers?

I think most BRDs and MCHs alive would tell you that they lose quite a bit by not having a DRG. Keep in mind that I am not an orange-tier BRD. I’m actually pretty average; the 90th percentile Chadarnook I’m referencing throughout this debate is my best run of the tier, and I haven’t beat it. So better BRDs than me will lose much more than ~400 from Disembowel/Litany/Dragon Sight (if they receive it), and ~260 from Disembowel.

For comparison, I looked at a 99th percentile BRD parse on Demon Chadarnook where the BRD got 300 DPS from Disembowel. That’s more than my 260 because they’re a better BRD than I am. They also got more from Litany than I did, and about the same from Dragon Sight, though they received the latter only twice throughout the fight, where as I had it 5 times.

Taking another log from a BRD that is currently #3 in terms of ranking on God Kefka—for their Chadarnook (7012 personal DPS), they go 327.6 from Disembowel alone; Litany gave them 119.9, Dragon Sight 64.8. For their God Kefka (6679 personal DPS), they got 311.8 from Disembowel, 98.8 from Litany, 71.6 from Dragon Sight.

A better BRD than me is going to lose more than I did. I only used myself as an example to illustrate my point that BRD/MCH are more dependent on Disembowel than people seem to realize.

I think there's an app that calculates rdps, but can't remember the name of it

Yes, this is the site people use to calculate rDPS: http://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/

[LeoLupinos]

You can be rdm or sam once you hit 50 so that's not the whole msq. There was the voice actors strike to deal with and then Yoshida got told not to do anymore spendy cut scenes after a certain one from T12. Then there's at least four different languages you have to hire va's for. I'm not sure how it is for WoW or other F2P games in the number of other languages they do the va for. I also don't know how long after the woman who did do Yugiri's voice they took before finding a new person after her death. There is also the change to the cast somewhere around 2.55 and HW which again must have taken time and money.

I mean MSQ from 1 to 50, there's 285.
T12 is not MSQ. I'm asking to do Voice acting in the MSQ, from now on. They reduced significantly the quantity of MSQ since 50+. But still, players still need to complete 1 to 70 MSQ, and 1~50 MSQ does not reflect FFXIV 2018.

Honestly, most of the story cutscenes are voiced. And it's my understanding that WoW has a significantly larger budget than FFXIV. And like someone else said, 4 languages, a metric fuckton of story quests to voice. It would be expensive. And they trimmed a good deal of the filler quests between 1 and 50. It's not nearly as bad now.

Most of the MSQ cutscenes are NOT voiced. I remember all the reading that I've done. "Significant larger budget", man, voice actors are not bilionaire, there's a lot of voice actors, SE does not need to put George Newbern for every MSQ character. I'm asking only to fully voice act the cutscenes of MSQ, it's not that expensive as doing the sidequests too. And it does not matter how much MSQ they trimmed if we still need to complete them, only a revamp and removal of the filler ones would matter.

Most of my friends mentaly are: No voice? Then it's worth skiping. If even the Devs decided to not voice act this cutscene, that's just because it isn't worth the investiment, so not wirth my time then = skip.

[GunksFoy]

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IIRC, the "massively larger budget" was shown to be a fan theory, not fact. But I've been gone from the game for awhile so that may have been validated. I would be interested to see proof of that though. And maybe not for 2.x, but most of 4.0 was voiced. They are not going to retroactively voice cutscenes, that's an asinine waste of money. That is a silly mentality for your friends. Every cutscene is at least mildly important to the story. How did they even survive gaming before every cutscene was voiced. Do they even play any game besides this one and massive budget triple A titles? I assume they can read, and reading a dozen or so lines of text every now and then is not a great imposition. Would it be great if every cutscene was voiced? Sure. Is it necessary to spend that kind of money on it compared to developing content? Not in my opinion.

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Not trying to offend you, just giving you an outside perspective. And you yourself just said that even the best bards only get ~330 dps from it, making your 400 number high for even the best. Yes, all that dps came from the Dragoon, but Disembowel is your complaint. Dragoon is not losing the other skills in your proposal, so it's disingenuous to claim you "lose 400+ dps from 1 buff". Take away Disembowel, Dragoon falls out of meta, you still lose ~150 dps (based on your own numbers, ~400 loss, ~260 from Disembowel) plus more from other party members. Besides that, someone else said "caster dps is different because it's calculated before bard/mch buffs", and I seriously doubt SE tuned Bard/Mch to be gated behind a Dragoon in the party. Are raids unclearable for you without a Dragoon in the group? If not, then the dragoon dps is icing on the cake and not mandatory. Just my opinion, but it seems that there isn't an issue here.

[Tint]

If even the Devs decided to not voice act this cutscene, that's just because it isn't worth the investiment, so not wirth my time then = skip.

that's not entirely correct. money may play a role... but they answered to a question regarding voice acting in a live letter back in 2014. that was about hildibrand quests, but i guess it's mostly true for other cut scenes as well:

they are working on the scenes until short before the patch releases and simply don't have the time to voice act them (in all the different languages).

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ce#post2018791 (the word "voice" is highlighted, just scroll down and you will find it)

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Take away Disembowel, Dragoon falls out of meta, you still lose ~150 dps (based on your own numbers, ~400 loss, ~260 from Disembowel) plus more from other party members. Besides that, someone else said "caster dps is different because it's calculated before bard/mch buffs", and I seriously doubt SE tuned Bard/Mch to be gated behind a Dragoon in the party. Are raids unclearable for you without a Dragoon in the group? If not, then the dragoon dps is icing on the cake and not mandatory. Just my opinion, but it seems that there isn't an issue here.

Actually, no. The loss of Litany is somewhat mitigated by Trick Attack or Brotherhood since you will at least one of those; possibly both. Disembowel has no such alternative. You simply lose 250+ DPS because a Dragoon wasn't present. Slashing, meanwhile, can be applied by three jobs spanning two roles. It's far less likely a group will lack Warrior, Ninja and Samurai. Making only one job benefit two others to this extent is simply poor design, and why so many statics prioritize Dragoon.

And no one said they were mandatory. That doesn't make it feel good knowing you're inherently gimped because a group decided to run Ninja/Samurai. Plenty of people participate in Savage for reasons beyond just clearing each week. The Bard in my static doesn't chase fflogs, however she still felt better seeing her numbers jump last tier when I switched from Samurai to Dragoon. It basically comes down to no job should be dependent on only one other job for a good chunk of its buffs. Paladin has three options to provide it Slashing. Bard has one.

[Vstarstruck]

PS2 limitations...this game never ran on the PS2, unless you meant the PS3 but that ended a while ago.

it's a meme based on ffxi, i did mean ps2 limitations.

it pokes fun at there is always something limiting them in why they can't do x.
(I/e they recently said win 32 limitations on something, though with inventory display it did sound legit and explained they could add an option to display the full 140 for win 64) < this just giving an example on where it comes from, because in ffxi it was the excuse to everything.

I thought it would been obvious there was a joke here when i said the FORUMS is being limited by the ps2.

[GunksFoy]

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I mean, you could have all Brotherhood, Trick, and Litany all at once as a Bard/Mch, however unlikely. Those skills do different things. I agree there could certainly be another class that has it, but I don't necessarily think Bard AND Machinist should get it. Giving it to all of them either pushes Dragoon out of the meta, increases it's dps, or makes it unfair to the jobs that don't have a slashing debuff. It's all a conundrum. What would be better imo, would be adding a new job in 5.0 with a piercing debuff (or do away with them entirely). Give some variety. Could even give Rdm a piercing debuff to compensate for it's relatively low dps, though they already have massive appeal in progression raiding.

[Dualgunner]

I mean, you could have all Brotherhood, Trick, and Litany all at once as a Bard/Mch, however unlikely. Those skills do different things. I agree there could certainly be another class that has it, but I don't necessarily think Bard AND Machinist should get it. Giving it to all of them either pushes Dragoon out of the meta, increases it's dps, or makes it unfair to the jobs that don't have a slashing debuff. It's all a conundrum. What would be better imo, would be adding a new job in 5.0 with a piercing debuff (or do away with them entirely). Give some variety. Could even give Rdm a piercing debuff to compensate for it's relatively low dps, though they already have massive appeal in progression raiding.

DRG losing Disembowel would put it on level with MNK and NIN for buffs given. If that drives it out of the meta, that just speaks to how OP Piercing is as a buff.

[GunksFoy]

DRG losing Disembowel would put it on level with MNK and NIN for buffs given. If that drives it out of the meta, that just speaks to how OP Piercing is as a buff.

Not really. Monk is at the top of the DPS charts, so its low utility is understandable. Ninja does have very low dps, but very good utility. Trick Attack is definitely better than Litany or Sight, primarily because it can be used twice between Sights and 3 times between Litany. They also have other prized utility. There's a reason so many people want ninjas. Dragoon losing it's piercing debuff would mean it either needs higher dps, or a different utility to replace it.