The Unofficial "Why is this still a thing" Thread

[Reynhart]

I lose ~400 DPS outright by just not having a DRG.

You don't lose anything, the raid loses 400 DPS on you by not having a DRG paired with you. That's the definition of raid utility.

If you weren't there, the raid would also lose what you offer as utility.

[HyoMinPark]

You don't lose anything, the raid loses 400 DPS on you by not having a DRG paired with you. That's the definition of raid utility.

If you weren't there, the raid would also lose what you offer as utility.

Actually, BRD/MCH do lose something—personal damage. Both the raid and physical ranged lose out on damage; the only difference is the BRD/MCH is personal DPS, the raid is rDPS. DRG’s piercing directly affects BRD/MCH personal damage output in ways that no other DPS is effected. They lose 250~300 personal DPS without Disembowel. The raid, in turn, loses the same amount of rDPS that BRD/MCH lose in personal DPS. Again, no other DPS is dependent like they are. And no other rBuff gives 250~300 to a single job like Disembowel does to BRD/MCH. Not even Trick Attack.

For some insight, I looked at the rDPS calculator of my 5753 parse, and the breakdown of buffs that benefited me were as follows:

—Disembowel: 260.4
—Battle Litany: 48.6
—Dragon Sight: 57.1
—Balance: 57.1
—Spear: 12.6
—Chain Strategem: 45.5
—Trick Attack: 94.7
—Embolden (5-4-3-2-1): 19.9-21.8-13.9-5.5-4.0

No other buff benefits BRD/MCH like Disembowel does. No other DPS is so entirely dependent on another job either in order to reach its potential personal damage.

And sure, BRD offers an immense amount of utility in their passive crit buff, Foe’s, and Battle Voice. But Disembowel still gives more to a BRD than any one of their raid buffs alone does to the entire raid. Same for other rBuffs like Trick Attack. And this, again, goes back to what I’ve been saying: no other DPS job is as dependent on another in terms of personal potential than BRD/MCH are on DRG.
Honestly, I think MCH suffers more without a DRG than BRD, because at least BRDs have their DoTs, which aren’t affected by piercing with regards to their ticks.

The “raid utility” of Disembowel is the reason the physical meta has been the meta since Creator. Not even the 5% nerf to it stopped it. Take away piercing or give to to another DPS/BRD or MCH, and the meta of DRG/BRD/MCH breaks because there are more options; or because BRD/MCH no longer have to rely on getting a portion of their personal damage from another job (in the event piercing is just removed entirely).

Maybe I don't quite understand how the 5% is applied, but if it's effectively a 5% flat damage buff, that would mean you would have to do 8,000 dps to lose 400. it seems you're more likely to lose about 200-250 (4000-5000dps).

The ~400 I mentioned is with regards to losing the entirety of a DRG’s toolkit. That being said, Disembowel makes up the majority of that ~400.

[GunksFoy]

The ~400 I mentioned is with regards to losing the entirety of a DRG’s toolkit. That being said, Disembowel makes up the majority of that ~400.

This seems intentionally disingenuous though. Dragoon would still retain those abilities, so while what you're saying is technically accurate, you would still lose 150-200 dps not having a dragoon even if they gave you a piercing debuff. I don't really have a stance on this, but it definitely seems like you're trying to deceive people by inflating the number you claim to lose by not having it.

Again, I don't really have a stance as I like the idea of job synergy but don't like the idea of job exclusion. I feel like it would be more acceptable if there were certain group types that worked well together. I.e. Brd, Mch, Caster, Drg OR Monk, Sam, Caster, Caster. You get what I mean. But then you end up with meta comps and even more group exclusion. Balance is a finicky thing.

[zuzu-bq]

Blizzard 2 /10char