The RMT of selling content using cross server party finder

[Rinuko]

It's a thing that been going on since couple months.
We have multiple threads on this here and on reddit.

We can hope someone asked a question about this for the upcoming LL this weekend.

[Tridus]

There's an easy enough way to keep this policy while getting the evidence. Have Square's very own GMs join those discords and ask for the price sheet.

But of course, they won't.

Yup. A few sting operations would clean up PF real fast. But that's not good for the bottom line. At the end of the day, this doesn't actually impede other players from playing the game, so SE has no real incentive to act.

[Linx0r]

Sadly this exists but why should anyone care? If people want to spend their own real money on something let them. If they get caught they get caught. If they don’t, why do others care? The world isn’t fair from incompetent people getting high paying positions from a relative even though someone who spent years of studies should be the candidate. Just work hard and play how you want and if it doesn’t concern you just ignore it

[AdamFyi]

There are a few instances where I can see that the current system is trying to avoid. In-game screenshots can be forged by changing the text colour of the Echo command and following the format of the chat you want to forge. However, this method is highly unlikely to even work because the special task force can just pull the server logs to verify if this is true. Third-party screenshots from Discord chats are generally difficult to verify anyway because not everyone has a Discord account, so it would be realitively simple for someone to pretend to be someone they're not.

The current system is probably the most reliable, quick, and trustworthy method for the support team to investigate any reports made by any players, but it's not that great in situations such as this. Honestly, there's really not much they can do about it unless the person involved accidentally lets it slip out in the in-game chat.

[Vhailor]

Sadly this exists but why should anyone care? If people want to spend their own real money on something let them. If they get caught they get caught. If they don’t, why do others care? The world isn’t fair from incompetent people getting high paying positions from a relative even though someone who spent years of studies should be the candidate. Just work hard and play how you want and if it doesn’t concern you just ignore it

One of the primary reasons I enjoy playing long-term MMOs like FFXI or FFXIV is that they offer, at their best, an escape from the real world, and all the disparity within it. Out in the real world, I have to accept that some of the worst people imaginable have the nicest things, and that some of the nicest people in the world suffer at their hands. It sucks. Games, like many other forms of entertainment, offer an escape - one that is severely limited when reminders of real-world wealth intrude upon the virtual world.

Moreover, these people actively disrupt the balance of the in-game economy. Their purchasing of Gil funds RMT, who make their money through the in-game economy, limiting economic options for legitimate players. Their purchasing of runs funds a narrow group of players, thereby again manipulating the economy around the purchasing interests of a few. Just as in real life, the actions of the corrupt, the actions of cheaters, impacts everyone else, too.

So, no, I won't ignore it - because it concerns me and my enjoyment of the game. It's against the rules, and I will continue to advocate for a scorched-earth policy until these pathetic cheaters with more money than common sense or integrity abandon FFXIV in favour of some other game to screw up.

The current system is probably the most reliable, quick, and trustworthy method for the support team to investigate any reports made by any players, but it's not that great in situations such as this. Honestly, there's really not much they can do about it unless the person involved accidentally lets it slip out in the in-game chat.

I'm not sure I agree, here. In the case of the PF options, the reason nothing is done is because technically selling runs for Gil is permitted. This is a bad loophole, and one that should be closed - which would immediately allow GMs to take action on any sort of PF advertising a run sale of any kind. They wouldn't need to distinguish between whether there's some workaround involving in-game currency; they could simply look, see that it's a sale, and boom - problem solved.

I have a difficult time seeing the downside to this solution. While I guess there's nothing overtly 'wrong' with purchasing a run using in-game Gil, I do think it violates the spirit of fair play, if nothing else. Why protect it?

[Vnolan]

There's an easy enough way to keep this policy while getting the evidence. Have Square's very own GMs join those discords and ask for the price sheet.

Yup. A few sting operations would clean up PF real fast.

There a few problems with that. If a GM investigated one and found it wasn't RMT, how would it prevent additional reports of the same listing while at the same time respecting the seller's privacy? If it was RMT, but the GM was fooled, that would allow the sellers to continue as they did before. If a seller was found guilty of RMT, they wouldn't be permabanned if it was their first offense, so the same seller could use the same contact info and claim they've shunned the ways of RMT. If they were permabanned, they could just use a new dummy account and different contact info.

It's a thing that been going on since couple months.
We have multiple threads on this here and on reddit.

We can hope someone asked a question about this for the upcoming LL this weekend.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4632827

You can like that post and hope it gets asked, but your post already answers it. There have been numerous threads about an issue which could be answered in all of one short post by a GM, but there has been no response. If SE were to say they won't or can't do anything about it, that would open the floodgates for RMT. If by some crazy chance the question or some variation is not only asked, but gets an answer saying they will be updating their policy on the issue, it would be another blemish on the system between the GMs and devs.

Sadly this exists but why should anyone care? If people want to spend their own real money on something let them. If they get caught they get caught. If they don’t, why do others care? The world isn’t fair from incompetent people getting high paying positions from a relative even though someone who spent years of studies should be the candidate. Just work hard and play how you want and if it doesn’t concern you just ignore it

Do you make the same post in threads about RMT bots spamming chat or sending invites? I'm sure many people would like to know if they could make money on the side by following the same rules that apply to parsing.

There are a few instances where I can see that the current system is trying to avoid.

Bans. That's what it's trying to avoid. You don't have to ban people if you ignore the reports.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

I recall reading at one point that support tickets for cheating/rmt on the web site go direcctly to the stf...


At one point I saw one of these and reported it on the web site to get it directly into the hands of those responsible for investigating RMT.




I wonder how things would go if people reported these obvious rmt listings through that...

[whiskeybravo]

But then when would it stop? As mentioned previously, they sell housing items and what's to stop them from selling other things if everyone just ignored them? The market board would collapse in days and the economy would be in shambles, I've seen it happen in other game where people buy in game currency and control the market, preventing anyone else from progressing.

And then if this kind of activity is done repeatedly with no action from SE, then what is even the point of playing the game when everyone just pays to have it be played for them? That's something I never understood.

I mostly agree with Linx0r. Your logic is the sort of twisted logic that we must stop all bad things from happening before they actually happen, which is simply impossible to say the least. If it truly becomes a rampant problem then it's on SE to fix it right then and there or lose players/revenue as a result. Right now it could hardly be considered a rampant problem (selling end game content clears for real money, that is)

RMT for gil I would consider in a different category, as gil in circulation can effect everyone on a particular server without their choice or knowledge. But I can't feel the same for services like this; it's a voluntary transaction on both sides - and it doesn't effect anyone outside of the transacting parties. Is it ethical? That's debatable I suppose. But in general I think there are a lot more people out there willing to "lend a hand" without asking for compensation, and as long as this is true it shouldn't really develop into a larger problem.

As for it being against ToS. That's on SE. If they are only going to use certain things for evidence and perpetrators know this they will obviously use it to their advantage to try to escape punishment.

Certainly others are entitled to their own opinion and that's fine. I just think on the long list of things to have a problem with this day & age, it's pretty far down there.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

There a few problems with that. If a GM investigated one and found it wasn't RMT, how would it prevent additional reports of the same listing while at the same time respecting the seller's privacy? If it was RMT, but the GM was fooled, that would allow the sellers to continue as they did before. If a seller was found guilty of RMT, they wouldn't be permabanned if it was their first offense, so the same seller could use the same contact info and claim they've shunned the ways of RMT. If they were permabanned, they could just use a new dummy account and different contact info.

All the GMs need do is "accept" the sell, then flag all seven people who party with them. Even a temp ban would scare virtually every sale group into immediately stopping. The trick to dealing with botters, RMTs and etc isn't to ban the dummy accounts but actively scare people away from doing it to begin with. SE is so hands off, no one's remotely concerned, thus you see an increasing amount of exploits.

[alimdia]

Doubt anything will happen, from a business point of view they aren't really gaining anything from spending resources on busting those groups, and despite all the shouting over it this doesn't really impact the game at all. Unlike people who buy gil from bots (which involve bot-generated money and can affect a server economy) the money is being handed from player A to player B, it doesn't even touch the FFXIV economy.