Mogtalk interview with yoshi p

[Tridus]

You guys really don;t sit down and actually think what stuff like this may mean in practice. It's easy to say "healing potency is too much" but you need to sit down and actually post some kind of rough model people can agree or disagree with; not just say something needs to happen and not define a plan.

I played WoW for years with those "weak ass heals", and their "stronger but healers still heal nearly full time" earlier incarnations, including in progression content. I know how it plays. Healers actually healed. Fights could kill you with one shots, with people eating avoidable but not lethal damage until you went OOM trying to keep up, and such.

The idea that this is some revolutionary insane concept is silly when the biggest MMO to ever exist does that exact thing to a higher degree than what's being proposed. You know what wasn't a thing in WoW? Healers spending 80% of their time DPSing and not healing.

I tend to think healers should spend more time healing than DPSing, and want a healing design to support that. Crazy stuff, right there.

[RiyahArp]

I played WoW for years with those "weak ass heals", and their "stronger but healers still heal nearly full time" earlier incarnations, including in progression content. I know how it plays. Healers actually healed. Fights could kill you with one shots, with people eating avoidable but not lethal damage until you went OOM trying to keep up, and such.

The idea that this is some revolutionary insane concept is silly when the biggest MMO to ever exist does that exact thing to a higher degree than what's being proposed. You know what wasn't a thing in WoW? Healers spending 80% of their time DPSing and not healing.

I tend to think healers should spend more time healing than DPSing, and want a healing design to support that. Crazy stuff, right there.

Then go play WoW, because trying to make that happen here would break the game.

They'd have to rebalance every single encounter in this game for a much lower, slower level of healing, and reduce a lot of spike damage in frequency and severity, as well as not limit the fights to 8 man instances with very strict enrages. You are asking for a nerf to every healing class, forcing them to spend a lot more effort to do their basic job-healing, with no benefit. I mean literally no benefit to them; reducing one hits isn't going to help any if my healing now needs a pretty strict rotation, and a slower wipe is a wipe just the same. You can maybe mitigate this by adding support abilities and keeping heals high potency but OGCD only, but that's such a radical change that would be on the level of HW bard.

I mean, ffs, the game works fine as is. The only issue with healing potency is in pvp. People need to stop suggesting changes that would break the game for no real defined goal.

Pretty sure that was sarcasm.

Except my retort was explaining why DPS don't need that and healers do.

I have red mage at lvl70, poorly geared to boot at item level just barely above 300. I still heal 10000 out of ~40000-50000HP that tanks with higher than me item level have. That's A LOT. Recently I was in a party where the healer did get disconnected. I managed to keep the party alive and sending an attack or two in the middle. Sure, I didn't get to heal the members to full HP or anything, just barely kept them alive...but I was not a healer. Of course, this was only in a dungeon, and I think lvl60 one. But hey.

Go try sustain healing with that. You find quickly it's not enough.

Of course there's never any clears posted with red mages being the sole healers. Why?! Every heal that red mages use IS A DPS LOSS. Why would a red mage cast heals if they can deal more damage than the healer can with every cast, and on top of that the healer can cast only ONE heal for a similar effect that the red mage needs TWO? Red mages are able to solo-heal a LOT of content. But it's STUPID for them to do it when the party WILL have a healer.

you clear with it because you want the challenge, like clears with pld. And no, they cannot solo heal a lot of content. The tank gets hit by a 25k tankbuster, and you will get overwhelmed in time unless its a very easy fight.

[Tridus]

Then go play WoW, because trying to make that happen here would break the game.

I've told you a billion times to stop exaggerating.

They'd have to rebalance every single encounter in this game for a much lower, slower level of healing, and reduce a lot of spike damage in frequency and severity, as well as not limit the fights to 8 man instances with very strict enrages. You are asking for a nerf to every healing class, forcing them to spend a lot more effort to do their basic job-healing, with no benefit. I mean literally no benefit to them; reducing one hits isn't going to help any if my healing now needs a pretty strict rotation, and a slower wipe is a wipe just the same. You can maybe mitigate this by adding support abilities and keeping heals high potency but OGCD only, but that's such a radical change that would be on the level of HW bard.

No they wouldn't. Certain fights would need retuning. Most wouldn't, especially when they're old and vastly outgeared already anyway. Instead of it taking 2.5 seconds to recover from something, it'd take 5. Then I'm back to DPSing. Half the time no more damage is coming in that few seconds anyway, so it makes no difference whatsoever except lower healer DPS. And since people are so fond of telling us that they don't factor healer DPS into designing encounters, having less of it won't affect anything, right?

I mean, you seriously think that Xelphatol, the dungeon of 82% DPS time for healers, is going to suddenly break when that number drops to 60%? That's hilarious.

I mean, ffs, the game works fine as is. The only issue with healing potency is in pvp. People need to stop suggesting changes that would break the game for no real defined goal.

For certain definitions of "works" and for a very clearly defined goal. If you think "healers should spend more time healing than DPSing" is too complicated, then I really can't help you.

[Zojha]

No they wouldn't. Certain fights would need retuning.

You don't even necessarily need to re-tune fights. It's a lot easier than that.

When the next expansion comes around, you simply ramp up health pools massively while keeping the scaling of healing relatively the same so that the same healing potencies restore a smaller percentage of the health bar. Then you use the 10 levels you add anyway to introduce new healing mechanics via skills and traits so people don't need to spam the same skills, because that'd be boring. And you can tune the new fights to the new paradigm, leaving the old as they were.

We're living in vertical progression land. Health goes up anyway, new abilities/gameplay is introduced anyway, encounters are re-tuned to the new abilities and stats anyway. The only question is whether Yoshida would like healers to be healers or if he's fine with them being green DPS. As it stands, he says he'd like them to be healers but designs them as green DPS, which is just awkward.