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  1. #1
    Player
    Vidu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,993
    Character
    Vidu Moriquendi
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    To be honest: I dont feel very self-conscious about my dps, neither on my main paladin nor on my bard.
    I obviously dont want to be a burden to my static, so here is what I do in terms of "parsing":
    I do the Stone, Sky, Sea for the raid/trial in question.
    And if I cant beat that - good, thats all I need to know. Because thats all that the game requires of me to clear that fight - that doesnt mean I stop improving at that point, I obviously always try to do that, but if the game tells me "yep, you're dps is enough" thats enough for me.

    You really need to take fflogs with a grain of salt - those arent always totally "accurate" statistics. I actually just had a conversation with my boyfriend about this - he mains a BLM and explained to me that a lot of those higher BLM-numbers arent an accurate reflection of BLM-dps, because, for example, they come from runs in which the whole group optimised for that BLM (aka: ASTs feeding the BLM balance-cards and stuff like that - basically something that wouldnt happen in a real run. And also something that hasnt got anything to do with the BLM and their skill - I'm not saying their a bad BLM, those people sure are not. But hitting those numbers isnt only their achievment).

    I would really advice you to try Stone, Sky, Sea and see how you're doing there before you let those parsers drag you done completly.
    It can also help you to identfy wether its you rotation/class you're having trouble with - or if its a certain fight and the mechanics in it that are hindering you. This way you'll at least know if you have to focus more on getting your job right - or if you're just not familiar enough with the dance of a certain encounter.

    In the end for me this game is about fun - and comparing numbers and striving for the top is certainly fun to some people. Personally, its not for me, so I dont worry to much about it (I am still making sure I'm hitting decent dps and such, dont get me wrong - what I basically mean is: I dont get upset about a bad run or something).
    And I'd wish fo you that you could do the same - maybe I'm taking this a bit to far now, but: This is your second thread about this issue and it seems as if this is really bothering you a little to much.
    Yes, playing decent is important. And yes, good dps aswell. I'm not denying that! Thats why I'd recommend you try SSS.

    But at the end of the day: why do you let this ruin the fun for you?
    Specially if your friends dont care.
    Specially if you still manage to clear everything you want to clear.
    Not everyone can be on the top of everything - thats kinda the nature of such things. So why care so terribly much about that?

    So, I'm not sure how much "personal experience" this is and how much this answers your question, but my advice would be to worry less - and to try Stone, Sky, Sea to see how you're doing compared to what the game things you should be doing.

    Dont base your self estem on stuff like fflogs and your dps! Both inside and outside of the game you've got a lot more than that to offer - and more important things too!
    Personally I'm sure that my friends are more likely to keep me around for my sense of humor and my crafters than my dps ;D (oh and obviously because tanks are hard to come by...) And I'm cool with that, as long as I'm doing well enough and we're all having fun together - because thats what this game (or any game) should be about in the end, right?

    Edit: When I started playing the game I was super nervous about everything - I would refuse to run dungeons, we dont even need to talk about raids!, and I was probably pretty bad aswell. But as soon as I started relaxing more and worrying less, I got better and better and improving myself was and is something I'm doing for myself, not for others (even though they're benefitting from that too, I guess). Siting there thinking "Everyone else is so much better than me, I shouldnt even be here" is really just holding one back - I'm glad I got rid of that attitude and just started enjoying and challenging myself!
    Once you can look at fflogs and see them as a challenge and not a "duel", look at it again - until then my advice would be: Get comfortable with your class, yourself and yourself playing that class. And take your time while reaching for the top - you dont need to be there tomorrow, specially not when that makes the way to get there painful.
    (18)
    Last edited by Vidu; 04-06-2018 at 09:26 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Luin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    287
    Character
    Luin Vereist
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidu View Post
    But at the end of the day: why do you let this ruin the fun for you?

    Specially if you still manage to clear everything you want to clear.
    SSS doesnt have mechanics. SSS doesnt have party buff alignments.

    It's piss easy to hit 6k on a dummy. Especially on Black Mage.

    Bad raiders look only at the numbers of a log. You might see someone parse grey and think oh he's garbage. But look closer and see oh okay, he got hit by Intense Pain, and received no healing between that and Demonic Howl. The tank also ate Pain multiple times, but the DPS didn't, so we can assume the tank didnt move for Pain. Then look closer and see okay, he had no AST/BRD/NIN. Look closer and see he had to handle the mechanic due to party composition like disengaging for Siren, and he used Limit Break. That's a lot of downtime.

    Also, FFLogs definitely needs a way to snapshot gear, or at the very least, ilvl. Posting a log in i340 is deathsentence.

    Ignoring that, your logic isnt solid either. There are plenty of greys out there that *ARE* greys. I've seen nins that legitimately dont know how to TA. Others that think starting with TA before any GCDs is best. Players that have cleared god clown with every parse they've ever had as grey. Who is in their party? Golds and high purples. You arent managing to clear if you're those kinds of players. You're getting carried.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    Vidu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,993
    Character
    Vidu Moriquendi
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Luin View Post
    SSS doesnt have mechanics. SSS doesnt have party buff alignments.
    It's piss easy to hit 6k on a dummy. Especially on Black Mage.
    Yes, thats why I suggest SSS to figure out wether its someones rotation thats a problem or if its mechanics. (afaik SSS is also calculated without party buffs and the like in mind - its basically really telling you wether or not you know the "mechanics" or "rotation" of a class well enough and if you're geared enough to pull the DPS required)

    An ice-mage will never beat the O7S-dummy, with or without mechanics.
    If you clear it with ease though, you can now rest assured that you've got your job down and its infact more the fight you need to work on more.

    Consdering all the factors that come into play with the numbers on fflgos - buffs from party-members, mechanic mess ups that werent your fault, no healing, getting picked for a mechanic that requires you to disengage, having to raise a healer to save the group etc. etc. - I'd say to get an idea wether or not you're doing fine on a ground level, SSS is the better option.

    Ofc there are people getting carried and obviously thats bad - especially when those people dont strife to improve. But what good does it do to tell someone whos trying to improve "Yeah, you're just bad"? Instead of rather being like "Okay, check if you have your rotation down and wether or not thats the problem"?

    My point is: Personally, I can go into fights with more ease after I've beaten SSS on that class, because I know that I'm capable of performing with that class in general.
    For any numbers generated in that fight, I'm taking into account anything else that contributed to them. All with the knowledge, that my class-performance isnt the problem and that I only need to get the dance of this encounter down (and teach that AST that crit-buffs are for bards!)
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Luin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    287
    Character
    Luin Vereist
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidu View Post
    Yes, thats why I suggest SSS to figure out wether its someones rotation thats a problem or if its mechanics. (afaik SSS is also calculated without party buffs and the like in mind - its basically really telling you wether or not you know the "mechanics" or "rotation" of a class well enough and if you're geared enough to pull the DPS required)
    Most SSS dummies are overtuned. Remember NIN SSS for Delta? Or MNK this patch? 5500dps to kill that dummy. (Sam was 5660 too!) It was nearly impossible to beat with 4.1's BiS even with pots and food, but plenty of low ilvl monks and sams went and cleared o8s regardless with much less than 5500dps for Clown on wk1. Alexander's SSS was also notoriously bad.

    My point is without actually watching someone, it's difficult to pinpoint exactly where the problem is, even with logs.

    Edit - IMO SSS should be at least 5 minutes, preferably 9 minutes long. You shouldnt need to alter a proper raid rotation to fit more buffs in a 3 minute dummy fight, when there are no 3 minute fights. At the least it'd be a more accurate dummy.
    (2)
    Last edited by Luin; 04-06-2018 at 11:46 PM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Vidu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,993
    Character
    Vidu Moriquendi
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Luin View Post
    Most SSS dummies are overtuned. Remember NIN SSS for Delta? Or MNK this patch? 5500dps to kill that dummy. (Sam was 5660 too!) It was nearly impossible to beat with 4.1's BiS even with pots and food, but plenty of low ilvl monks and sams went and cleared o8s regardless with much less than 5500dps for Clown on wk1. Alexander's SSS was also notoriously bad.
    For my point thats actually even better, because, let me repeat this to you: Its about figuring out wether or not you've got enough knowledge and gear for that fight on the job you're trying the dummy with.
    I'm not saying that killing the dummy means that you'll clear the fight.
    Or that not killing the dummy means you wont clear the fight or wont do well enough in it.

    We've already agreed on fflogs not being a real accurate representation of dps and performance either, at least not as long as you're only looking at rare numbers, because they dont take into account your gear, the party-buffs, how well you dealt with mechanics (that might require you to disengage the boss - for example in my static I'm doing Typhon in O6S. I'm the OT - not sure if our way is ideal, but its how we're doing and clearing the fight for a few weeks now. Works. But also means that I'll lose uptime on the boss), if a SMN/RDM raised someone (which might have saved the group - in my book a person who raises a healer is better than the person who pushs for more DPS, specially if the dead healer leads to a wipe) and so on.

    So my whole point is to use the dummy in order to give yourself an idea if you're skill- and gear-wise ready for this content.
    If you beat it with or if you're getting at least close to beating it (<5% left), you should be fine in general.
    If you're not even getting close to that, you know something is wrong with your rotation or your gear and you can check for that.

    On a very basic level I'd say bad parser can come from two things:
    Not enough knowledge of the fight - or not good enough at the job (thats meant to include gear and skill).
    SSS lets you test wether or not its the later.

    I'm not really sure what your issue with the idea of testing that this way is, to be honest.
    I've never claimed not beating a dummy means you're to bad for a fight - but I'd dare argue that not getting close to beating a dummy (>20% left) means you're probably not ready for a fight yet. From there you go anf igure out why - so: gear or skill?
    (1)
    Last edited by Vidu; 04-07-2018 at 12:54 AM.