Config Settings/In-game Config Update

[Rhianu]

For 2.0, we will be removing parts of the config program, which only reflect changes after rebooting the game client

Only parts? Why not all of them? If you ask me, the config program should be completely removed and eliminated. Every single option should be moved to the in-game configuration menu. The external config program should not even exist.

[Fensfield]

Only parts? Why not all of them? If you ask me, the config program should be completely removed and eliminated. Every single option should be moved to the in-game configuration menu. The external config program should not even exist.

As Soukyuu says, some options would probably require the game be restarted to work. I think Anisotropic filtering is a particular offender in this regard, for instance. Depending on the start-up times for the 2.0 client (especially if they keep the login external), being able to edit settings that would require the game be restarted from outside the client could well be more convenient (it certainly is at the moment).

Hell, it's pretty much the fashion these days to provide an external config program if your game has any options that would require a restart, and give it the ability to edit all settings, restart required or no.

Frankly, that is what they ought do. Keep settings would require a client reboot in the external config program (and possibly put them inside the client too, tad redundant though that may be), and then make it possible to edit every configuration option that wouldn't require a client restart from the external program as well.

Removing options from the external config program (or indeed, removing the program itself) is counter-productive in my opinion. They should just be adding things that can be edited in-game to the in-game Configuration menu as well.

Oh and it might also be nice to be able to access the in-game Configuration menu from the Welcome Screen too, so as to not have to go through loading up a character to tinker with the settings.

[Rhianu]

As Soukyuu says, some options would probably require the game be restarted to work.

Yeah, so? Just have a pop-up window tell the player that some settings will not be applied until the game is restarted. Problem solved. There's no need to have a separate, external program. All that does is make things more complicated than they need to be.

And I've never seen any game except for FFXI and FFXIV that had an external config program, so your claim that such is the fashion these days is completely false.

As for the time it takes to start up the client, if it takes any longer than 10 or 15 seconds, then they're doing something wrong. But the new client for Version 2.0 is still under development, so that can be one of the goals for the dev team moving forward.

I do agree though that configuration options should be accessible from the title screen. That would definitely make things convenient when you want to edit settings quickly without having to take the time to log all the way in to a character.

[Soukyuu]

Yeah, so? Just have a pop-up window tell the player that some settings will not be applied until the game is restarted. Problem solved. There's no need to have a separate, external program. All that does is make things more complicated than they need to be.

That doesn't really change the fact you have to restart the client, no? I see no problem with an external program tbh, just make it accessible from the client login screen. It would also make sense to keep all settings in the external program AND have those settings which don't require a restart ingame at the same time.

[Rhianu]

That doesn't really change the fact you have to restart the client, no?

Restarting the game is still faster than exiting the game, starting up a separate program, changing the setting(s) you want, closing that program, and then starting the game up again.

Without an external config program:
1. Change Settings
2. Exit Game
3. Start Game

With an external config program:
1. Exit Game
2. Start Up Config Program
3. Change Settings
4. Exit Config Program
5. Start Game

Really, I don't know why you think an external config program would make things faster, because it wouldn't. In fact it actually slows things down.

[Soukyuu]

Really, I don't know why you think an external config program would make things faster, because it wouldn't. In fact it actually slows things down.

Because when you look at the external program for the first time, before starting the game, you can set it up according to what you think your PC can handle, for example turning off AO, instead of logging in with everything maxed and having 1fps.

It never hurts having both, both write to the same .cfg file anyway. It can even be part of the login UI as I already said.

And one more click to close the config program doesn't warrant a separate point on the list, else you could start counting how many clicks/keypresses you need to reach the config ingame >_>;;

[Rhianu]

Because when you look at the external program for the first time, before starting the game

Stop right there. That's exactly the opposite of what usually happens. People don't look for an external configuration program before they start the game. They just start the game first and then look to change the settings afterwards if the defaults aren't to their liking.

And yes, actually it does hurt to have things in an external program because that's not what people naturally expect. Pretty much every other PC game does everything in-game, so to do things externally is highly unusual, and causes significant confusion for new players. I can't even count the number of times I've seen someone in FFXI or FFXIV ask how to change settings, only to have to explain to them that the game has an external configuration program that's separate from the game itself. It's just not intuitive or user-friendly to have a separate program for configuration purposes.

And one more click to close the config program doesn't warrant a separate point on the list, else you could start counting how many clicks/keypresses you need to reach the config ingame >_>;;

Actually, I would count that, too. A good, well designed UI should allow you to use as few clicks as is conceivably possibly to accomplish whatever task the UI was designed to accomplish. If there's even one unnecessary click, then the UI has room for improvement.

[Rhianu]

Having two separate methods of configuration would be redundant. Redundancy is also something to be avoided in UI design.

And sure, maybe some people mess around with the configuration settings before they start a game, but most people generally don't, the reason being that you don't know how things will run on the default settings the first time, so any changes you make would be like shooting in the dark. You don't really know how it'll impact the game.

[Fensfield]

Restarting the game is still faster than exiting the game, starting up a separate program, changing the setting(s) you want, closing that program, and then starting the game up again.

Without an external config program:
1. Change Settings
2. Exit Game
3. Start Game

With an external config program:
1. Exit Game
2. Start Up Config Program
3. Change Settings
4. Exit Config Program
5. Start Game

Really, I don't know why you think an external config program would make things faster, because it wouldn't. In fact it actually slows things down.

You're uh.. why are you so set against having both?

And it does make things faster. Here, lemme fiddle with your chart a little...


Without an external config program:
1. Start Game
2. Wait for game to load [Variable time, may be some time depending on various factors. Even the best-coded games can have long initial load times and there is no way it won't be a 'noticeable' load period at the absolute minimum, on a good system]
3. Change Settings
4. Exit Game
5. Start Game
6. Wait for game to load

With an external config program (And starting the game first):
1. Start Game (presumably? This whole bit of the example is forgetting the possibility in the next scenario)
2. Wait for game to load
3. Exit Game
4. Start Up Config Program (instant)
5. Change Settings
6. Exit Config Program (instant)
7. Start Game
8. Wait for game to load

Yes, the second example is slower, obviously. You loaded the game first. BUT, and this what you aren't acknowledging:

With an external config program and not launching the game first:
1. Start Up Config Program
2. Change Settings
3. Exit config program
4. (Optional) Start Game
5. (Only if 4) Wait for game to load.

See? That is why I'm in favour of an external program and an in-game config, especially in the face of there already being one (and thus why I'm opposed to removing non-restart options from the external config). In scenario 3, because I knew the changes I wanted to make, I didn't have to start the game and wait for it to load twice. Further, I can not load the game at all if I don't want to - an unlikely possibility but still possible, and very convenient in the event.

Also...

And I've never seen any game except for FFXI and FFXIV that had an external config program, so your claim that such is the fashion these days is completely false.

In order of age (roughly):
- Ragnarök Online (admittedly not recent at all, but significant in the genre and still operating)
- Final Fantasy XI
- Phantasy Star Universe
- Sins of a Solar Empire (sort of)
- Recettear
- Final Fantasy XIV
- Batman: Arkham Asylum
- Chantelise
- Phantasy Star Online 2 (Alpha 2) - (added since Bahn confirmed as much - thanks!)
(And I wouldn't be surprised if Batman: Arkham City had one and all, play it though I have not)

That's just off the top of my head the ones I'm certain about. I'm sure I could find more in my game library alone if I went hunting, and recent at that. I realise some of those are pretty old, but some aren't, and you did say never... At the very least Arkham and PSO 2 undermine your getting to suggest I'm being dishonest with your 'completely false'.

Oh I do. Because I build my systems myself and know their limitations. I think we should just agree to disagree on this one, I don't want to full another page with this.

Oops. Point and good idea. Sorry I started writing this before noticing your post (or, hell, this whole page >.>) so.. yeah, goodo, won't be posting on the argument again - but my voice is still with having both and not stripping the config program of its current functions, but rather just adding everything possible to the client as well.

[Bahn]

I wonder if Phantasy Star Online 2 has one.. again, wouldn't really surprise me. 'Seems to be their design philosophy. Doesn't really count toward the argument though.

PSO2 Alpha 2 has an external config program, but some settings can be changed within the client. I have a hard time navigating all the kanji during the alpha since I can't tell WHAT settings can be changed within the client, but yeah, it went from *everything* needing to be changed in the external config in PSU to being able to change certain settings from the external config AND within the game for PSO2.

Before you ask - the Alpha 2 agreement allows us to freely talk about the game. They have some rules on screenshots and video (make sure to put a copyright notice, etc) but that's it.