REQUEST: Please split The Blackest Night into two seperate skills

[Saeno]

Currently, The Blackest Night will only overwrite another Blackest Night if it is stronger than the previous shield. As shown here in this .gif:

https://giphy.com/gifs/1fY6pUqzKRAEB4HPrI

And on the contrary, a Blackest night will not overwrite one that is stronger than the new Blackest night being applied, as shown in this .gif:

https://giphy.com/gifs/54YdMyz1tDan71T6xr

This is quite an unfortunate circumstance for one of the DRK's because if they use a Blackest Night and it does not proc because another DRK overwrote theirs, then they lost the 2400 MP but also do not gain the 50 Blood gauge to gain DPS.

My proposal to change The Blackest Night to avoid this circumstance is to make the current Blackest night its own self-only buff and create a new skill for DRK's that share a recast to The Blackest Night but it can only be used on others. This new DRK skill will have the same effect as The Blackest Night when used on a party member (10% of your maximim HP) but it can also stack onto another DRK's Blackest Night so these Dark Knights do not lose their 50 gauge once the shield pops.

What do you guys think? Should this be looked into by SE, or do you feel The Blackest Night is fine as is?

[mosaicex]

What I think is that SE probably doesn't want you to run double DRK.
Also I'm not sure why does the off tanking DRK needs to put Blackest Night on MT DRK, not only is it 10% weaker (assuming equal HP) but their MP is better off spent on spamming more Dark Arts anyway.

If you think this is bad I'd like to point you to MNK(s) and Brotherhood buff. Maybe I didn't look hard enough but I have never seen anyone bringing this up.
2 DRGs? Fine, nobody hates double litany
2 SAMs? Whatever
2 NINs? Not gamebreaking
But 2 MNKs and your opener completely breaks down due to how Brotherhood interacts with each other. Sure you can delay Brotherhood but your DPS still suffers nonetheless because of Chakra proc.

I think this change is a pretty easy and fair one considering a similar mechanic already exists with PLD's Sheltron and Intervention. If it was as complicated as an AoE buff like Brotherhood, then this thread would not have been made.
This is also the case for things like AoE balance. The difference between these skills and Blackest night is that those are AoE and Blackest night is not.

SE just doesn't want job stacking, period (Shame they didn't enforce this in RF for EX Primals and Savage Practice). And I don't really see any issue here because OT DRK loses nothing for not putting TBN on MT
Also with TBN changes, if you really wanted to you can still put them on MT to help him mitigate auto attacks damage, with duration buff and only 10% shield it's pretty much guaranteed to break and gives you Blood.
As for AoE Balance (or cards in general), you can still delay those and use them when you see fits, this isn't the case for crucial part of the burst like an opener.

[Saeno]

What I think is that SE probably doesn't want you to run double DRK.
Also I'm not sure why does the off tanking DRK needs to put Blackest Night on MT DRK, not only is it 10% weaker (assuming equal HP) but their MP is better off spent on spamming more Dark Arts anyway.

I think this change is a pretty easy and fair one considering a similar mechanic already exists with PLD's Sheltron and Intervention. If it was as complicated as an AoE buff like Brotherhood, then this thread would not have been made.

If you think this is bad I'd like to point you to MNK(s) and Brotherhood buff.

This is also the case for things like AoE balance. The difference between these skills and Blackest night is that those are AoE and Blackest night is not.

[Saeno]

SE just doesn't want job stacking, period (Shame they didn't enforce this in RF for EX Primals and Savage Practice).

You're aware this is something that SE can implement in Duty finder? They dont do it because the content they make outside of raids are easy enough to allow you to job stack. As it turns out, that's quite a lot of content in this game.

And I don't really see any issue here because OT DRK loses nothing for not putting TBN on MT

The blackest night when used as an OT is something you use to assist your team mates. The DRK does not lose nor gain anything, but they helped their party member and for some DRK players, they enjoy that.

As for AoE Balance (or cards in general), you can still delay those and use them when you see fits, this isn't the case for crucial part of the burst like an opener.

This doesn't have anything to do with the subject though. Using AoE overwrites as an argument against TBN being split into two skills is nonsensical.

[mosaicex]

You're aware this is something that SE can implement in Duty finder? They dont do it because the content they make outside of raids are easy enough to allow you to job stack. As it turns out, that's quite a lot of content in this game.

Yes? I'm not really sure what your point is.

The blackest night when used as an OT is something you use to assist your team mates. The DRK does not lose nor gain anything, but they helped their party member and for some DRK players, they enjoy that.

See my point about auto attack mitigation.
You can still help people as much as you want. Someone is getting targeted by hard hitting dot? Shield away. Raid-wide attack incoming and that guy wasn't topped up enough? TBN to the rescue.
Just because you can't stack it with MT when he's prepping his own is hardly a major problem, and surely not the one that warrants splitting one skill into two.

This doesn't have anything to do with the subject though. Using AoE overwrites as an argument against TBN being split into two skills is nonsensical.

The issues is not about overwrite, the issues is how interaction of 2 of the same skills being detrimental to users (In DRK case you waste your MP, in MNK case you lose any chance of chakra proc)

[Saeno]

Yes? I'm not really sure what your point is.

My point is that because double stacking jobs is something that does happen ( and quite often) in content, you cannot say "SE doesn't want you to run double DRK". You don't choose who your co-tank is in DF/PF, and as such, TBN should be adjusted for when you do get a DRK co-tank. This is a QoL change that does not affect the game in any meaningful way.

See my point about auto attack mitigation.

Again, its about helping your party members. You can help them mitigate autos and that's great, but if they use their own blackest night, you just lost your 2400 MP and the 50 gauge that should have came when popping your blackest night. Also, your co-tank isnt the only person you can apply Blackest night to.

The issues is not about overwrite, the issues is how interaction of 2 same skills being detrimental to users (In DRK case you waste your MP, in MNK case you lose any chance of chakra proc)

So you admit it is an issue. I shouldnt have to explain why this change should happen for DRK to you then.

[mosaicex]

My point is that because double stacking jobs is something that does happen ( and quite often) in content, you cannot say "SE doesn't want you to run double DRK". You don't choose who your co-tank is in DF/PF, and as such, TBN should be adjusted for when you do get a DRK co-tank. This is a QoL change that does not affect the game in any meaningful way.

TBN were not meant be stackable, much like how adlo/succor and noct aspected benefic/helios don't. That's pretty much it.

Again, its about helping your party members. You can help them mitigate autos and that's great, but if they use their own blackest night, you just lost your 2400 MP and the 50 gauge that should have came when popping your blackest night. Also, your co-tank isnt the only person you can apply Blackest night to.

See the edit.

So you admit it is an issue. I shouldnt have to explain why this change should happen for DRK to you then.

It's an issue that can simply be overcame by not using TBN on MT.

[Saeno]

TBN were not meant be stackable, much like how adlo/succor and noct aspected benefic/helios don't. That's pretty much it.

Good argument. With two BiS Dark knights, TBN stacked with neo-TBN could be strong. However, the way I see it, a DRK MT can gain intervention from the PLD which is basically the same effect as the weaker Blackest night. A neo-TBN allows the DRK to synergize with their co-DRK a little better, which is the goal here. I understand double DRK isnt the way to go or double PLD, but at least in a double PLD comp, they can give their coPLD intervention, which would not overwrite Sheltron.

It's an issue that can simply be overcame by not using TBN on MT.

So if I queue as a SCH for content and I dont want another SCH overwriting my adlo that I used on the MT, I should not use adlo on the tank? That's fair, dont get me wrong but I dont think avoiding using your skills is a good way to overcome issues.

[Tint]

does shake it off stack? or divine benison? i know adloquium and aspected benefic do not stack... what's with divine veil and passage of arms? sacred soil? collective unconscious?

i really don't think DRK is the one in need for stacking shields.

[Saeno]

does shake it off stack? or divine benison? i know adloquium and aspected benefic do not stack... what's with divine veil and passage of arms? sacred soil? collective unconscious?

i really don't think DRK is the one in need for stacking shields.

They dont stack because those skills always have the same effect, unlike Blackest night. Blackest night is stronger when used on yourself but weaker on others. When you use skills like Benison, Divine Veil, Shake it off, you will not lose anything aside from the cooldown itself. This is different with DRK because TBN wants to be broken so it gives you the gauge, and your 2400 MP cost isnt wasted. Losing the shield to an overwrite is a very strange interaction since you lose DPS.