Request: Please give us alternate ways to obtain PVP armour and weapons

[Stormfur]

Maybe you missed the post further back where I said that would be fine IF they instituted rewards account wide.

i don't want any special treatment. I'm just saying that for some people it is more of a challenge. If anything, my progress in feast is a testament to what can be done despite the hand life deals you.

Since you like to tie real life situations to a video game, by your logic, the paralympians don't deserve medals and the disabled don't deserve ramps. I've not, nor will I ever give up trying to get there.

[Aviars]

Maybe you missed the post further back where I said that would be fine IF they instituted rewards account wide.

i don't want any special treatment. I'm just saying that for some people it is more of a challenge. If anything, my progress in feast is a testament to what can be done despite the hand life deals you.

Since you like to tie real life situations to a video game, by your logic, the paralympians don't deserve medals and the disabled don't deserve ramps. I've not, nor will I ever give up trying to get there.

You see you aren't saying it. Do you think that allowing top 100 winners the option to use the top 100 voucher on a past top 100 rewards or current top 100 reward is all that is needed to satisfy you? This suggestion solves your complaint that only the first top 100 players have a chance at the reward and you have "claimed" that you are fine with having to get top 100 for the reward in question. So what's the problem? Why are you so against saying that you agree the rewards should remain for top 100 players?

Also to your comment amount Paralympic competitors. They don't receive the same reward at all for winning and it's considerable less in value compared to what the main Olympic players receive. What they get is quite distinct in difference, you should educate yourself on that. And also you referring to sidewalk ramps aren't related to competition, you are making comparisons that aren't even remotely related to what we are talking about, just stop.

[Awha]

Also to your comment amount Paralympic competitors. They don't receive the same reward at all for winning and it's considerable less in value compared to what the main Olympic players receive. What they get is quite distinct in difference, you should educate yourself on that. And also you referring to sidewalk ramps aren't related to competition, you are making comparisons that aren't even remotely related to what we are talking about, just stop.

True, what if the reward obtained through differing means was altered from the top 100 rewards. I do not know much about Paralympic competitors, but I am sure they get medals of some kind, granted they are different from the ones Olympic players receive. Make the reward obtain through differing means still a hell hound (as an example) just alter it in some way. Toss armor or something on the top 100 reward mount, and make the one accessible for more people planer.

I think a timed exclusive means that allows players to buy it with wolf collars overtime would be a reasonable middle ground.

[Stormfur]

Says the one who started the real life comparisons... /shrug.

Yes, I think if you get a top 100 voucher, you should be able to choose your reward. But I also think that any reward you choose should be made available to all your characters on your account.

And I also think an alternate version should be made available in time with wolf collars. Not immediately, but maybe after a year. Perhaps the top 100 mount has armor or effects on it. The other does not.

Would that not be an acceptable compromise for everyone?

[Aviars]

Says the one who started the real life comparisons... /shrug.

I responded about the paralympics because it was relevant to what we were discussing. The sidewalks weren't. Don't act like I ignored your point. please

Yes, I think if you get a top 100 voucher, you should be able to choose your reward. But I also think that any reward you choose should be made available to all your characters on your account.

Nice to see you finally give an answer.

And I also think an alternate version should be made available in time with wolf collars. Not immediately, but maybe after a year. Perhaps the top 100 mount has armor or effects on it. The other does not.

I've always said Top 100 rewards could be given extra things like armor or whatever to make them distinct to what the normal player receive. I personally feel you before now you were just trying your hardest to disagree with me. It's whatever though. You pretty much just agreed to everything I've been saying now. hopefully you can clarify whenever you post about the matter that this is what you want rather than just getting the same mount as top 100 players for nothing

[Mantrus]

.

Those asking for a change to the status quo are the ones pushing forward their perspective in order to initiate change. I didn't say people are wrong or invalid to want the reward, but I would argue that based on logic extrapolated from SE precedent, there's not sound reasoning for making the reward easier.

[Awha]

While you have never said those with differing views are wrong others have. As I mentioned before those in favor of the status quo do have the current system as a precedent but if at the end of the day both value propositions are inherently subjective why so some feel the need to call others wrong for how the view the topic and try to belittle the request for another means. Some even go as far to say people want the same reward for nothing when the majority have said no such thing.

[Stormfur]

Aviars, since you posed a question to me that I answered, now I'd like to pose one to you.

Just wondering, my feelings on the issue aside. Why do you feel you are entitled to a reward forever when every other reward in game, save ultimate and those bundled with physical items, can be had over time?

a12s, while still difficult, is much more accessible now.
Previous holiday and many exclusive items can be had on mog station
Even the minion hellhounds, which were originally exclusive top 10 rewards, are now obtainable via other methods in pvp.

Do you think making things easier somehow invalidates your original effort?

[Aviars]

Aviars, since you posed a question to me that I answered, now I'd like to pose one to you.

Just wondering, my feelings on the issue aside. Why do you feel you are entitled to a reward forever when every other reward in game, save ultimate and those bundled with physical items, can be had over time?

It's been explained many times in this thread and by others but since you don't seem willing to put this away AFTER agreeing with me on pretty much everything I'll explain it to you in the most simplest of terms. I don't think people who don't put the same effort into getting a reward should be entitled to the reward, period, and that isn't a wrong sentiment to have. I think with the proposal of people using the top 100 voucher to potential get a past reward is good enough, there wouldn't be a time exclusive aspect to the reward, and it still makes the reward as hard to get as before. There is nothing more to say about it.

a12s, while still difficult, is much more accessible now.
Previous holiday and many exclusive items can be had on mog station
Even the minion hellhounds, which were originally exclusive top 10 rewards, are now obtainable via other methods in pvp.

A12s and holiday items were never advertised as exlusive items only for top 100 players.

Also hellhound minions were changed from top 10 to readily available pretty much immediately due to whining. You know what they did do? They made a brand new item that was still exclusive to top 10 players. So I think that shows precedent to SE being committed to providing exclusive rewards that are not available to to average player. I also say to you SE has no reason to continue following what they did in the past forever, they are FREE to improve and evolve their game in any way they wish. Just because you guys like to spout the word "consistency" doesn't make it reality.

Do you think making things easier somehow invalidates your original effort?

Rewards advertised as hard to get made easier to get does lower value. Fact.

In the end you already agreed with me and others with the proposal we made, it's time for you to let it go.

[Awha]

Can we agree when we talk about value we are talking about how much something is worth to someone? In this context am I wrong to say that value is subjective? I think this is where a lot of the confusion came about. I do not think the majority are in disagreement with you that subjective value markers can have objective changes due to changes made to them. For personally I know that I worded by position as a means that assumed me share the same value system. When I spoke of value in the social context using the Joe 1234 having the access to the same mount should not detract from the personal value, only the social value. I was wrong since what I considered social value can be a factor to determine personal value.

We have differing views on this matter, but doesn't this go to show how in this context one view is not inherently wrong or right? Sure one can be more widely more acceptable by a larger margin of people, in this case you have the precedent of placed by the company supporting exclusive rewards for certain content. I mean I get you have the status quo on your side, but does that status quo mean that any request made to make a change of the system should be met with personal attacks, or treated like a moot or frivolous endeavor. People in this very thread have attacked others for their views if we can get past that maybe then we could have a proper discussion regarding the topic. Sure nothing may come of it, but maybe something will. In the end we are making a request, said request does have a direct impact on those that have the value marker of the item once being only meant for those that have showed the, commitment, effort, and skill and will objectively devalue the item due to the objective value proposition posed by SE.

What I am trying to say is just because SE is currently on your side it does not make any request to change the current system moot, or any side that is not in agreement with you wrong. In the end the markers that we choose to determine value are subjective, but changes can have an objective impact on said choices. Thing is SE is free to change their value proposition that is why we are posing the request to SE. Be in disagreement, argue your position but can either side truly said they are objective right or wrong on this matter. As it stands a few people seem to think they are objective correct because currently SE shares the same view. That view can easily change, and if it does ever change I do hope if anyone in favor of the current system is not meant with you are wrong because that is life or you are wrong since I have SE on my side.

It is okay to be in disagreement, but a topic like this does not have an objective truth, and no request made to change the current system should be met with personal attacks from either side. I am sorry if anything I have said in the past was seen as a personal attack, I do know that I could have said some harsh things and I know that due to situation not a native speaking coupled with learning disabilities my posts can be hard to read. Sorry about that, either way I do think we can have an interesting discussion if both sides are willing to admit that one either side in not inherently right or wrong.

I don't think people who don't put the same effort into getting a reward should be entitled to the reward, period, and that isn't a wrong sentiment to have.

It is not a wrong sentiment to have, and if I implied otherwise then I am sorry since for the confusion. Your sentiment, but being that is your personal belief on the subject same should be true for those that want consistency or for those that want exclusive rewards to be made obtainable by everyone in the community.

Rewards advertised as hard to get made easier to get does lower value. Fact.

This is also true if the value marker you place on a item is tied to the current value proposition posed by SE, and if SE did happen to change their value proposition for whatever reason said reward / item would lose value that is a fact. That is why we are making the request for differing means to obtain the rewards. Since SE is within their right to change their value proposition at anytime. Does not mean you have to agree with their choice if they ever changed it to make the rewards readily available for more players no it does not and it also does not make your position wrong if change were to happen. Just as those who are not in favor with the current system do not have to be pleased and are within their right to make a request for a change to be made. Sure you can be in disagreement but does not mean that the request is wrong.