BRD/MCH having their own piercing?

[Maero]

This thread reminds me of that thread asking for blm to get raise.
No thanks

[Sunako]

Okay, one place where MCH is good for one skill, but if I'm not reading FFLogs wrong...
There are currently 37 bards to 13 machinists cleared through.

EDIT: Oh and also looking at these upload numbers, SMN is at 40, matched by DRG and only beaten by NIN.

You are looking for last 2 weeks, I mean once ultimate was relevant content first 2 months.

EDIT: If you look even at this point 194 mch have ultimate clears and 231 bards. Difference is not really that huge.

[Zerathor]

I would spell out how woefully obtuse this response was, but Dualgunner did it for me. Regardless, you assume I have some personal attachment to Machinist? Why would it be "so painful" when I'm an omni-melee raider?

I find it annoying that this is actually some concern to mch when utility wise, they'll still be relevant. Considering that casters are just barely, finally being able to compete, and if they decide to yield for a caster, its a smn thats gets placed over blm. There are a plethora of other issues that are far more out of wack than mch sometimes being a slight toss up for meta groups.

[HyoMinPark]

True, but I think usually BRDs create a rotation to have the correct song at the right moment no?

No. A BRD's song rotation is strict; most fights it will not change to revolve around Troubadour activation. I've never seen any talk in the Balance Discord, nor any logs from top-tier BRDs, in where they change the strict rotation of Minuet > Mage's > Army's. Most they do is either ride out Army's if there is a phase transition coming and they don't want to waste Minuet, or skip Army's entirely: in Clown Kefka, the song rotation I use in the beginning is Minuet > Mage's > (First Graven) > Minuet > Mage's > Army's > (Second Graven).

Changing the rotation would mean your cooldowns will be out of alignment. Since a BRD's complete song rotation is 80 seconds for the sake of the alignment of Minuet+Raging Strikes+Barrage, and Army's is clipped as soon as those three are off CD because it is the less useful of the three--clipping Mage's or Minuet early would be a massive loss to the BRD. And I've never heard any BRD recommend opening a fight in anything but Minuet.

I'm so sorry. It must be so painful to only have mch in 5/10 top god kefka speed runs. Such a tragedy. This needs to be fixed immediately, why shouldn't they be 10/10? Come on squeenix, think of the poor gun bards. Why should a ranged physical ever have to think of needing to compete with a.... caster.... gross. Casters can't be meta right?

I repeat what I said before: please go back and actually read posts before you respond to them. Your passive-aggressive comments are not helping you get any point across other than 1. You have not read a word people have said, because otherwise you would realize MCH is already being ousted by MNK, BLM, and SMN; and 2. Making people less inclined to listen to your concerns now and in future threads.

I find it annoying that this is actually some concern to mch when utility wise, they'll still be relevant. Considering that casters are just barely, finally being able to compete, and if they decide to yield for a caster, its a smn thats gets placed over blm. There are a plethora of other issues that are far more out of wack than mch sometimes being a slight toss up for meta groups.

If piercing is removed, MCH will die just like DRG unless they give it more utility, or make it the selfish ranged and keep BRD as the main support ranged. They offer no support that isn't already offered by other jobs other than Dismantle, which, if there are heavily magic-based fights, casters can just come in with Addle instead, even though the CD is longer. Both BLM and SMN massively out damage MCH in terms of personal DPS, so the loss of Dismantle would not be that missed. Neither would Hypercharge, because Trick Attack does it better by almost double if you look at rDPS calculators. BRD already offers Refresh/Tactician/Palisade, and any skill where you may need to stun or silence something.

MCH's relevance in the meta is already faltering. You're just too busy complaining to actually do the research.

It's also worth noting that BLM parses over SMN in most fights except V5S, and SMN is higher only because it can pad ridiculously on the adds. In Chadarnook, Guardian, Clown Kefka, and God Kefka, BLM is at the top, and is usually followed by MNK or (surprisingly) SAM in God Kefka. SMNs are high, but BLM is at the top in those fights.

Again, please do your research.

[Dualgunner]

You are looking for last 2 weeks, I mean once ultimate was relevant content first 2 months.

EDIT: If you look even at this point 194 mch have ultimate clears and 231 bards. Difference is not really that huge.

How would I look at the entire thing? Call me a blind bat, I can't find that utility.

Also a question: how many of those MCH uploads were there *in place* of bard, and not accompanying it?

[Remedi]

No. A BRD's song rotation is strict; most fights it will not change to revolve around Troubadour activation. I've never seen any talk in the Balance Discord, nor any logs from top-tier BRDs, in where they change the strict rotation of Minuet > Mage's > Army's. Most they do is either ride out Army's if there is a phase transition coming and they don't want to waste Minuet, or skip Army's entirely: in Clown Kefka, the song rotation I use in the beginning is Minuet > Mage's > (First Graven) > Minuet > Mage's > Army's > (Second Graven).

Changing the rotation would mean your cooldowns will be out of alignment. Since a BRD's complete song rotation is 80 seconds for the sake of the alignment of Minuet+Raging Strikes+Barrage, and Army's is clipped as soon as those three are off CD because it is the less useful of the three--clipping Mage's or Minuet early would be a massive loss to the BRD. And I've never heard any BRD recommend opening a fight in anything but Minuet.
.

Fair enough, must've heard it wrong since I don't play BRD

[Kabooa]

I get Nature's Minne and Troubadour mixed up all the time when I ask if "X would be useful during Y"

[HyoMinPark]

I get Nature's Minne and Troubadour mixed up all the time when I ask if "X would be useful during Y"

Nature’s Minne functions similarly to Convalescence in that it boosts HP recovery for the target by 20%. It lasts 15 seconds, and the cooldown is fairly short (45 seconds), so I tend to try and prep it for any tankbusters so the healers can heal up a tank easier (unless the tank is going to immunity it). It’s also good pre-pull to help a SCH fish for a Crit-lo to deploy.

Troubadour’s function is different depending on the song you use it in, so optimizing it depends on the fight, the type of damage going out, and where you are in your song rotation in relation to the former two:
—Troubadour Minuet (Wanderer’s Minuet): Reduces magic vulnerability by 10%
—Troubadour Ballad (Mage’s Ballad): Increases maximum HP by 15%
—Troubadour Paeon (Army’s Paeon): Reduces physical vulnerability by 10%

In Sigmascape, I almost exclusively Troubadour Minuet, because of all the magic damage—Mage’s would be the second best option (though be careful with it in God Kefka because of Heartless Angel), and Troubadouring Paeon is useless. In Clown Kefka, you can use it for Light of Judgement; in God, you can use it for the Light of Judgement during First Forsaken, during Third Forsaken, and during Fourth Forsaken.