When eureka dies

[Pastahnak]

I just think trusts are a cool idea, y'all go off topic real fast.

[Usho]

Eureka will die. Like most things in FFXIV when it's outlived its usefulness. Once ppl get their "shinies", the meh glamour pieces and the "dino" mount, the place, like diadem before it, it will die a slow/semi-fast death.

FFXIV is not FFXI, never will be, no matter how they try to justify or defend Eureka. FFXIV is a themepark MMO. Kinda like Six Flags. Once you finished the ride, you move on to something else.

Instead of the "Please look forward to it!" It should be: "We hope you enjoyed the ride! Ha Ha! "

GG.

[Ronyx]

Eureka is the worst thing they had ever made and I'm playing since 1.0.

[ManuelBravo]

Eureka is the worst thing they had ever made and I'm playing since 1.0.

Eureka is one of the best things I have played and I've been playing since beta, it is a nice change of pace from dungeons, easy tomes, some grinding aspects are a bit of a hassle but nothing too difficult. It's a bit too easy of content and wish they would of focused more on relics, kind of sad that people don't like it even after it has been nerfed, has not even been out for a month, and sometimes it gets irritating when people can be lazy at times and still get things done if they know how it works. Guess it sucks when people really don't understand it and just say it the worst with out really going into detail. Maybe SE would improve it more if it got more feed back just like they did when people mentioned the low XP and the loot boxes than vague comments with no specific reason.

[Kinazu]

Eureka is one of the best things I have played and I've been playing since beta, it is a nice change of pace from dungeons, easy tomes, some grinding aspects are a bit of a hassle but nothing too difficult. It's a bit too easy of content and wish they would of focused more on relics, kind of sad that people don't like it even after it has been nerfed, has not even been out for a month, and sometimes it gets irritating when people can be lazy at times and still get things done if they know how it works. Guess it sucks when people really don't understand it and just say it the worst with out really going into detail. Maybe SE would improve it more if it got more feed back just like they did when people mentioned the low XP and the loot boxes than vague comments with no specific reason.

It's good that you enjoy it, but it seems that a lot of people are unhappy with what Eureka turned out to be. And I for one am disappointed with it as well, to some degree.

For something that had a 6 months delay I expected something more. Especially when few small QoL things are missing from the get-go:
- An option to exchange multiple crystals at once (How did this go by unnoticed in the first place? The amount of currency we need is extremely high compared to any other type of content. I shouldn't be sitting 30 minutes in front of my screen clicking "next" all the time.)
- A true level sync. (I can't help my lowered-level friends out because they gain 0 EXP when I am in a party with them.)

Eureka is currently really solo-unfriendly, and that's fine. But why would they make it party unfriendly as well? I'd go in a lot more, and potentially enjoy it a lot more if I actually could help out my friends. But I can't.

Besides the listed above QoL changes, I'd love to see these as well:
- No "sharing" exp across a party. (Because let's be honest, if someone else tags a monster it'll devide the exp over all the people that tagged it. So in general it's not that great to have a full party because you'd get less EXP per monster. Let a monster just give a flat amount of EXP depending on the person's level. Or make it a hard tag: The party who tags an overworld monster first gets the full benefit.)
- More tradeable/sellable items. (I'm really sorry but why did everything had to be untradeable in the first place? It's not rare. It only claims a lot of inventory space. Why didn't they think of making it stackable? We'd get loads of it anyway.)

May it get too easy because of this? Maybe. But obtaining the relic shouldn't be a test of skill. It's just a grind, it always has been. And I agree, a grind it is; but for FFXIV to be claiming to cater to casual players, Eureka is in my opinion, doing anything but that. For people who work a full week and don't have a lot of time per day Eureka is a mess. Sure, they can do it in small steps but there are more people leaking out of Eureka than there are currently going in. Like others have said before, sometimes getting people to spawn Pazuzu is already a pain and Pazuzu is even needed to get your weapon done. Even if you'd increase the EXP gained and buff the crystal drops, you still need to get to the end levels of Eureka and that will take a good chunk of hours. Enough hours to justify it being called a grind.
As for the more "hardcore" players Eureka isn't even worth the timesink besides getting a shiny weapon. Maybe later down the road when it comes closer to the ilvl you get from Savage, but that'll be only at the end of the expansion. I know they can't give us Savage-tier relic equipment this early, but I think an other step to bump it up to 365/360 respectively would already help a lot in that regard. Sure, it may then conflict with the Alliance raid gear, but then everyone would have more options as well.

At the end of the day, Eureka turned out to be an other Diadem with even less to do. For something that we're supposed to farm a lot that just doesn't justify its current state especially considering the delay. I expected a lot more out of it: (Daily) Quests, Challenge Log entries, additional crafting and gathering content tied to it and something innovative. Something new. You may argue that the Magia board is just that, but the only thing it does (and the hard level scaling) is adding artificial difficulty.

And as I said before, it's bleeding players already. Sure, it won't exactly die any time soon but how are people who join fresh at 5.x going to do the Stormblood relic? Unless they revamp pretty much the entire thing at the end of 4.x/launch of 5.0 they can't. It's not solo friendly enough and by then there won't be a lot of people wanting to do it anyway. As the people who wanted to have already completed it and probably don't want to enter ever again.
And if they do decide on changing it down the road that'd also mean less resources to something else as well. What're we going to sacrifice then? A raid tier? A new Alliance raid? Another dungeon? For what's it worth I currently won't give Eureka a pass. Simply because we lost more (of the same) content for a huge (and pretty much brainless) grind that's again, more of the same.

Also, you said it got nerfed, but I kind of have to disagree with that. The only things they've changed so far are:
- EXP (and loot) gained from chains
- Lockbox prices

As for the EXP gained I wouldn't call it a nerf. I don't know how much the increase is but it's probably minor. Yet again, it won't effect the grind a lot because the amount of EXP needed is still the same. Unless they change that I wouldn't call it a nerf at all. Just an "adjustment".
The lockboxes are something I couldn't care less about. It wasn't needed but it's a nice change for those who want to obtain something worth more out of it. Or plainly something they can use to improve their stats. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a nerf either because you get a lot of boxes anyway.
As for the real nerfs: I doubt that they won't come until we're halfway through the second part of Eureka. And the only thing they could probably "nerf" about it anyway is:
- Amount of crystals needed per upgrade decreased
- Amount of crystals drop per fate incerased
- Crystal exchange amount increased

I don't see them changing the EXP needed values because if we have to level more in the second part it needs to be counted throughout the entire board. So doing that would also nerf the second stage indirectly. Unless every instance of Eureka will have their level seperated (which I can't see being received well) I doubt they'll change the EXP values.

[ManuelBravo]

It's good that you enjoy it, but it seems that a lot of people are unhappy with what Eureka turned out to be. And I for one am disappointed with it as well, to some degree....

You have very good valid points and I see where your coming from. However there are some points I do disagree with. In general you make very good and valid points so I will focus on the ones that I disagree with to an extend.
Multiple crystals and loot boxes turn in, yes that needs to be addressed. After doing all anemo relics ( have crystals and feathers on last 4 just have not turned them in ) and saving loot boxes it has become an issue. I agree 100% that this needs to be improved. The firework update has been address...now it's a gear issue -.- with no de synth option or sells for 1-5 gill. ( another example SE will not always meet 100% satisfaction yet they did try )

Solo unfriendly I disagree. Even when it came out I soloed do to more xp than in party until level 5, then on and off while looking for NM parties. There was a boost on xp for going solo and duo is actually really good when going on same level and above level mobs. Before as solo I was doing 100-500xp chains. Mixed with a few NM trains took me about 5 days being in eureka about 4-6 hours a day ( took time off for new content). So from my perspective I disagree to an extend. From my perspective those that understood the xp factors and how to speed them up yes the patch is a NERF meant for solo players.

The whole XP penalty makes sense if people try to be helpful and really only mess up your chains so when I solo I shout and explain to pls not attack mob I'm focusing on. people were very supportive once I mentioned why.

The level sync with friends? you could still help to spwan NM faster, just don't be in the same party so they can get Xp properly or become outside healer. Once Fate pops join them. So there are ways around this issue.

Lastly; while it may seem like another diadem is the same format as the outside world playing solo. Just instead of spawning fates they are timed. Diadem you had star rank nms I would have love to see this in Eureka as unique NM's not fate ones for an xp boost. Once the next chapter of Eureka comes around they probably will increase the xp, after all they have nerfed most of the older content to an extend that is too easy and actually feels boring, tome anyways.

I would like to complement you though, you make good valid point and at the very least they are logical and make sense.

[Kinazu]

I would like to complement you though, you make good valid point and at the very least they are logical and make sense.

Thank you! I've tried my best to relay the points that I wanted to make. Hopefully I'll do it right this time as well.

Multiple crystals and loot boxes turn in, yes that needs to be addressed. After doing all anemo relics ( have crystals and feathers on last 4 just have not turned them in ) and saving loot boxes it has become an issue. I agree 100% that this needs to be improved. The firework update has been address...now it's a gear issue -.- with no de synth option or sells for 1-5 gill. ( another example SE will not always meet 100% satisfaction yet they did try )

Glad that you agree with me on this one. Though the fireworks were never a problem for me personally. (I love to collect prisms so they were welcome in my case.) My problem has always been the gear and housing items. You could make space in your inventory for the fireworks and be done with them, simply because they stack. Whereas gear and furniture doesn't and everytime you loot one of either it'll eat one part of your inventory until it's full. I think that part needs some adjustments. (And it would help out in the long run as well if we got stackable furniture.)

Solo unfriendly I disagree. Even when it came out I soloed do to more xp than in party until level 5, then on and off while looking for NM parties. There was a boost on xp for going solo and duo is actually really good when going on same level and above level mobs. Before as solo I was doing 100-500xp chains. Mixed with a few NM trains took me about 5 days being in eureka about 4-6 hours a day ( took time off for new content). So from my perspective I disagree to an extend. From my perspective those that understood the xp factors and how to speed them up yes the patch is a NERF meant for solo players.

I may have looked at it from a different perspective then. When I started Eureka I noticed that I only got around 10-30 EXP while killing a monster solo, while I needed 1.000 EXP to level up. I didn't like what I was seeing so I joined a party and we hunted monsters about 4-5 levels higher than ourselves. This gave me a lot more and I had a blast with the chatter as well.
Of course this isn't for everyone and we all leveled differently. Althought I still fail to see how this was a nerf to solo-players, I'd be happy if you could enlighten me on that point.

Now from a different perspective altogether: Let's say Eureka stays exactly as it is now for the entirety of Stormblood and 5.x. How are you supposed to solo it then?
Sure leveling may be doable and you can slowly get Protean crystals. But what about the Anemos crystals? If you were alone in an instance I doubt you'd be able to take any fate on solo, unless you tried really hard and are playing as the right job. And then I'm not even talking about Pazuzu. Unless there'll be a complete overhaul it's likely that people who want to do this after a couple of expansions will just not get the chance to do it.
I don't want them to make it more solo-friendly as of now, but I am worried for those who want to do it when we reach future expansions.

The level sync with friends? you could still help to spwan NM faster, just don't be in the same party so they can get Xp properly or become outside healer. Once Fate pops join them. So there are ways around this issue.

While I could do that, I still see it as an issue that I have to go out of my way to help my friends, whereas I kind of expect me to be able to play with my friends and help them out on any level being in End-Game Content. Why do we have end-game content in end-game content? Seems a bit far fetched to me.

Lastly; while it may seem like another diadem is the same format as the outside world playing solo. Just instead of spawning fates they are timed. Diadem you had star rank nms I would have love to see this in Eureka as unique NM's not fate ones for an xp boost. Once the next chapter of Eureka comes around they probably will increase the xp, after all they have nerfed most of the older content to an extend that is too easy and actually feels boring, tome anyways.

To be fair it is an other Diadem, with just less stuff to do. Like I said, they could've added some stuff to make it more attractive and give people more things to do. Sure, they will change stuff when the next chapter of Eureka arrives, they will add new stuff to keep us busy that's a given. I just honestly think it should've been there on release in the first place. A lot of what we see in Eureka is pretty much copy-paste and reskinned/recloured models that we've seen before. Maybe one, two or three new models and a few new particles and attacks. But other than that it doesn't add anything new. (Daily) Quests are as much copy-paste as what they did now as well. Why didn't they add them?
I just don't understand why they made it an other Diadem in the first place. When people have been crying for it not to be an other Diadem. I appriciate the effort the devs put into this, I really do. The map looks great and the music's good like always (albeit a tad too slow for my taste, I'd have liked something more adventurous) It just doesn't add anything new. And at this point people are getting a bit fed up with the ongoing treadmill. Sure, it's nice knowing that you can skip a few patches and easily get back into action; but every now and then you need to give your players something new to keep them busy/happy.
The devs tried Diadem, but it didn't succeed. Then we got Diadem 2.0 which lasted for a good month but it followed the same fate. So why did they decide to release a Diadem 3.0 (so to speak). I'm pretty sure that "3rd time's the charm" wasn't what they were hoping to achieve.

They have released some new and interesting content over Heavensward though:
- The Aquapolis is a good example and they even took it again with Stormblood by adding the Canals and later on expanding it to the Lost Canals.
- The Palace of the Dead; It was well received and a lot of people enjoyed it because it was fresh, enjoyable and a new take on our dungeon system. We know that Stormblood will get its equivalent of it as well.

These two show that they can do it and that it can be build upon as well. It just surprised me why they repeated Diadem 3 times at this point.

[Vstarstruck]

The level sync with friends? you could still help to spwan NM faster, just don't be in the same party so they can get Xp properly or become outside healer. Once Fate pops join them. So there are ways around this issue.

This is a player work around to a bad design. You want to see full details where I draw my conclusion? be careful what you wish for.

First off, it is easy to see you have a bias in this diadem 3.0 place of liking it, how much it effects what you say is .. average? like this player work around of a bad design I pointed out. You can still like something but admit it is heavily flawed.

For the solo thing, it simply takes too much time to kill something. You said you soloed to level 5, how long did that take? how long would it take a healer or tank to do? Maybe one tank is OP compared to the next. I do not have the answers to this but this points out your bias in you not going into all these details or what job you even did to solo to level 5 on. What if the person only has healer? Only likes healing on MMOs? what about them that would like a relic, then gets presented with this frontloaded content to progress on relic?

With that said, I think you are claiming "realize that you are dramatizing " because of said bias. You could not even explain why you see it existing, just claim it is there. So I am confused you sit here and tell me what a strong argument is, and yet you do not do it yourself.

"yet I think that for being content that has been out less than a month and thinking its terrible because it's not to their liking is childish." Again this shows your bias, or maybe you do not understand the fact some people know what they like to know if they will like it or not in the future. Sure some people change their prospective, however there is some that don't some people know themselves better then others. I am a bit shocked you suggested it has not been out long enough for people to know if they like it or not. There is not much there, clearly you should be able to accept some will know if they do not like the place after 1 hour of play, speaking of which:

If many people do not like it with 1 hour of play it is a failure. You know that saying about first impressions? This means SE failed to give a good first impression, so even if you like it, you should be able to admit this.

We know you can't please everyone, that is inevitability, however having 0%-60% of the people like something is a failure.

Lets examine this:
https://youtu.be/QF29EvN9yc4

I do like he tries to be neutral or explaining to accept "the other side" but every "pro" or "equal" arguments I have a counter for.

So they start off why people should not compare to diadem because of similar does not mean same. The issue I have with this is that the different dungeons can distinguish them selves and trails even more so. For example trying to 100% up time this though this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7N5...ature=youtu.be
and is drastically different to this:
https://youtu.be/ek_FAZTuHWU?list=PL...RgKLfsz2-8GmUp

So you can't really use the idea x dungeon is like y dungeon because all you do is kill things. How you do it is drastically different, is is what you do is what matters. (And the fact he did could not really explain how the different crafters are different but can be the "same" depending on your gear/melds making everything done on same macro or not, with crafting classes they are slightly imbalanced, i/e it is easiest to HQ goldsmith crafts vs the others because of what you have to cross class)

So he went into how one place is based on rng drops and the other not so much and that makes diadem 2.0 differ from 3.0, I do not think so. How items are gained has no point in your ability to play the content or how one finds the content fun. When I look at diadem 3.0 I do not look at the end rewards to see if I have fun doing something or not, then I look at the rewards and put to the 2 together to see if it is worth doing (lots of fun, so the rewards don't matter vs bore but I'll do this anyway for the ends justify the means concept, vs I hate said content that leads to only outdated gear) In the end, diadem 3.0 is like diadem 2.0 but without the extra content that came in 2.0 (gathering, big boss, though big boss requirements where an issue, had no relic attached to it, true optional side content) As far as looking what you do in diadem 2.0 as far as progression, it is the same, kill a fate get drops, turn in drops.

I am happy that he pointed out that yoshi-p's statement is not immune to criticism. Saying it reminds you of old MMO is just looking at it though a very narrow prospective (big grind = old school??) First the zone is too small for that feel, you are not giving enough "camps" for each level to truly feel that. With FFXI, you are not brainlessly AoE killing monsters in a party, you are not zerg rushing them. At least back when FFXI was level 75, pre treasures, the common thing to do was have someone with a range attack ability/ throw/ shoot arrow, what have you, and go and pull as people rest for mp. Doing this gave a mini break and allowed for convos and so on. In FFXI however it is just rapid brainless button mashing, so trying to compare this to old school MMOs is very confusing to me. The only thing I know how it can compare to anything "old" is FFXI's abyssea and FFXI abyssea is drastically different then what built FFXI in the first place. This is why I throw out "blind following" because I was trying touch on the concept of having a narrow viewpoint on the situation and not a bigger scope, using feelings too much to interfere with a subjective analysis. This is further supported when people stating this, even the guy in this vid, can't detail how exactly it is like FFXI or other old school MMOs where I sit here explaining in detail why it does not, and thus a simply a narrow viewing of the situation. Even in the video he said "even if I never played FFXI, I would like .. (do i have to use the name...) "Eureka" for the same reasons I liked FFXI's gameplay" suggesting the gameplay of the 2 are the same, when they factually very different.

Then he goes in stating a pro, you only need to grind once. I assume this is for the leveling thing but I am not sure if I call it a pro or not. It is simply there apart of the bigger system, and if you had to grind what we see as levels say for different jobs, it could be seen as a con, getting people to play it more by leveling different jobs. OFC this means the entire system would have to be changed. My point is we do not know if it is a true con or pro as we do not have any alternatives to compare it to. A system having to level muti times on different jobs could been a better system depending how the full content ends up being designed around it, just like how the current system is designed around doing it once.

Comparing it to light grind is simply wrong because we are not deep enough in the expansion for SB relics to e getting equivalent steps such as that yet. However, I would still rather complete HW relic then do the current steps to 355 and repeating for another because its simply too dull. You have to do this one area for all these different steps for relic, where ARR/HW relics can have a bunch of different options. Going back to the nostalgia pro, the music also does not cut it to minimize the boredem. Why not give FFXi music for somethings or remix versions of it? instead we just hear this receptive music for the different fates. Another problem with comparing this to old MMOs in general, those long grinds felt more worth it because items lasted, not doing "new content" for outdated gear, and will be forever outdated in max 1 year and 9 months as we will be entering 5.0 given the past track record. So in the end, this is just for glams, this whole leveling system, the leveling system is useless. (unlike PoTD where it is done right)

The SB relics are too frontloaded, too much presenting players with a mountain. Again it had a lot of problems giving good first impressions. This makes it too much time to start having prograss on (unlike ARR/SB relics you can make prograss at them from start to finish, 15-30 mins at a time, that is if you take out some of the bad fates for ARR relics, the kind that you have to camp to know it exists, like upper that dies in 5 seconds. Still even with that, you can park your character there, afk, and not worry about auto kicks, or having carpal tunnel issues.

Next pro, talking about how "chill it is" this is a con, this is why it is so damn boring. However with the leave and enter when you want, you still have significant start up time to make progress, make a party, find people, get to spot, sit afk, whatever.

His con, this could been addressed with better design, I/E it could have its own action and progress system like pvp/PoTD before BS update.

His pro 'it is immersive" no idea what this means, but pretty sure it isn't. The zone in general is just there running fate to fate, gets dull seeing the same pathways after 4 hours or more. About needing a party to go anywhere, you can say that for any current dungeon. You are also untouchable being 4 + levels above the current area you are in.

His con, FFXIV has this problem as a whole, SE should of known 144 players is too much for the servers to handle. Even after the update it is hard to kill adds or mass monsters in the fate train. I do not know how you have so much postpone and it be outright broken like this.

Pro: "promotes community cooperation" I agree it is good to have, however in diadem 3.0's case it came out as an effect how bad it is. Without level sync and other features that it should been in the content, people are forced to fate train to exp gain off things way too high for them because it is so hard to find 8 people same level and work to pop something specific and low level. So between that and the fact how small the zone it is, you are going to find such cooperation no matter how good or bad the content is. The next comment about hearing "git gud" or figure it out your self, happens more and more as the content ages, so you can't say it will always be positive, that is just the effect of being new. Also this place is the first time I seen toxicity in a semi mass scale within days of release (MPK) Also I see little cooperation when it comes to add control with a fate being up, just like anywhere else.

The lockbox system is very badly made in general (i/e too much inventory bloat) it would been much better if we got the amount of boxes/10 while it being a currency to buy items. (even after the update, still bad)

Pro: already addressed the FFXI thing, in short, no it does not, not by a long shot if you get past oooooohhh looook grind exp. Oh I forgot about commenting on the "handholding" and guidance. Without having a quest log at all, like FFXI had, I thought the game was bugged and people losing their mind over a quest to do. There was no indication you where on a quest or need do something. Again this goes back with FFXIV's style with giving markers. I do not need them, but I need an indication I needed to do something for a quest??? no quest log??? The 17 quest I did myself, as that point I figured out how it worked and what it expected. I did not need no help for that one.

I would love an "open world grind" sadly diadem 3.0 is not that, missed the mark there.

"pro it is optional" you lose this argument when you have a relic fully dependent on it. You had options how to do with other relics, why not this one? Yeah I get it in the very end relics are optional, but if you like doing relics and wanting something to do, this becomes non optional (9 hw relics, 2 ARR relics, 1 FFXI relic, 1 ffxi emp weapon and I hate this place, 0 SB relics even though I can get one after converting the things, I just dot want to bother with doing all those unnecessary clicks. I am only getting to 20 for future proofing, I have no interest in the current content.)

Also final note, I love talking to people, it should be clear, it is why I am on the forums at all, This place is boring, I just afk here as I post this. So in conclusion, there is nothing good about this place, hearing it was delayed twice or more, for no content, 10/10. beta content is ok, but don't release beta with relic progression on top of it so late in the expansion.

I am level 20, 2798 Anemos crystals, 62 protean crystals, 1513 lockboxes( handed some in) this enough to experience for you to accept I still hate it and still call it diadem 3.0? I have no intent at the moment of turning this in a relic or whatever because all the clicking is not worth a glam to me. (or the massive inventory bloat that comes from the lockboxes)

[Pomelo]

Eureka is one of the best things I have played and I've been playing since beta

*chokes on my food*

[ManuelBravo]

*chokes on my food*

If you quote me, at least quote me properly and not just a portion. It could be misunderstood. Watch out for that lego on the floor. /em pats Pomelo Elmbrook on the back.