New 12 dollar emote should have been a Eureka reward!

[Mikki]

snip

I totally get where you're coming from but I still think you're giving them more leeway than they deserve. Okay, yeah. So the team in charge of the mogstation is a different team from the one working on the rest of the game; of course I know that and expect that. The problem is that they should be putting more money into getting a bigger team to work on the actual game if they can't even fix core issues with the game, since the mogstation may give good income now but it certainly won't continue to do so if the base game is continually getting worse as people expect more and more quality as times change. Any company should be thinking about their quality standard and when considering something technology based, how that quality standard needs to increase as their consumers expect it to. Like you said, textures. They're atrocious. Not at all what I would expect from a big title Final Fantasy MMO in 2018.

Your seasonal gear argument has some ground, but at the same time consider people who continue to stay subbed even when they can't play and missed the event (has happened to me several times - events only last 2 weeks on average and I've had times where I had no access to my computer for 2 weeks at a time but never dropped my sub since I sub 3 months at a time). Consider the fact that you can get it on as many characters as you are able to for that one standard sub price but can only purchase most items per character on the mogstation. And again, I was suggesting a chance to get the item again only when the seasonal event comes again which means (and I promise you people will), those who are impatient will buy the item whenever.

And no, no, no. I do not think that everything SHOULD be free. Although I do think it's ridiculous to have a cash shop in a sub game to begin with, I absolutely can respect the idea of trying to maximize profits in order to make your product better by reinvesting that money back into it. As I said before, if the improvements to the game were much better, then I'd have no problem with the prices. But as it stands, with what we get? I'm not even saying free, I'm just saying...woah, buddy. ALL OTHER MOGSTATION EXCLUSIVE EMOTES are $7, including the eastern dance which is much more intricate than this. This looks like they basically just added a bunch more effects (that they already have created and saved in their database, none of the effects seem too original honestly) onto the power up emote. What in this emote warrants 5 extra dollars? Because I and many others are not seeing it.


Let me be clear though: I don't want this emote. Even if it were $7, I don't want it. It just doesn't interest me, just as the power up emote didn't (so don't think I'm just some salty person who is upset because I don't want to pay that much for it). But I happily bought the $7 eastern dance though because I DO enjoy that one. Yeah, $7 still feels a bit steep for an emote but I can accept $7 as reasonable for what it is. I, too, am a realist. Which is why I'm speaking up. And I'm being realistic when I say that this emote isn't worth $12 and that's why there's an uproar about it. YES, there are still plenty of people who WILL buy it at that price because $12 is still quite an accessible price to most people as you mentioned (although, honestly what value meal & ice cream cone are you buying that it costs you $12? If you call that a value meal, I think I've found the problem with our differences in opinion!). That doesn't make it actually WORTH that price though, hence why you have such a huge group of people standing up and saying "What the hell, SE?". I don't think I've really seen all that many complaints for the $7 emotes, except for people who are complaining that the cash shop in general either shouldn't exist or should be cheaper which are also valid points considering again that this is a sub game. However, I should be clear in saying.... While I can certainly understand the people who say that a sub game shouldn't have a cash shop, I understand why SE would want one and I don't fault them for it. It's a company.

But again. If you simply say, "Well it's a company so..." to EVERYTHING they push out no matter how overpriced, that's not really an adequate argument. A company will charge whatever it can get away with charging. We as the consumers need to say, "Hey, that's not an ok price." which is what we're doing. At what point does a company become "greedy"? According to you, it sounds like you would answer "never, because a company will always try to make money". True, a company will. But when they are trying to charge more for something without increasing either the quality of that product (again, I fail to see how this emote warrants $5 more than the previous emotes) OR reinvesting that money in a meaningful way (that the consumers benefit from) then they are effectively being greedy. Where is all this money going anyway? I think I heard you mention server upgrades but lets be honest here... that is BASELINE. That is something they should have the money for from subscriptions. I see no other games struggle as much as FFXIV does with server issues. More housing wards? That mess is their own fault honestly. They should have hired competent people to solve the housing issues before it got this bad, either by implementing rules as they did recently (just listening to the customers would have given them this answer as people had been saying this for a long time) or by making apartments more desirable.

In general, most of what FFXIV offers is at a reasonable price. But they are starting to step out of line with the mogstation and we are speaking up. A realist should recognize that a company has every right to make money but there is a fine line between deserved profit and profit gotten from people who make poor choices with their wallets and have to have EVERYTHING they release regardless of the price.

Lets take a look at an outside example: When it is raining, some stores increase the price of umbrellas. Most people scoff at this price and would NEVER buy it unless they absolutely need to. This is overpriced, but they can still get away with it. Doesn't mean it isn't overpriced and doesn't mean it isn't scummy business practice, despite it being lucrative for the company. The only reason people don't speak out about this (at least as much) is because you can still get a cheaper umbrella if you plan ahead. No choice with ffxiv here though (even if this goes on sale, it will still be more than what an on sale emote should be)! So we must speak up if we don't want this trend to continue.

Anyway, I'm not trying to attack you but I really resent you considering yourself a "realist" as if all of us are just uninformed (as you even said) and have no idea how business works. I have had my own business in the past. I totally understand your points. But you can't just give a company a free pass when they raise prices drastically without adding value. Especially when they aren't proving to us that they're really putting a majority of that money back into the game. I get that some of the money will go to their other projects but you can't just continue to take from FFXIV while hardly improving it.

But I guess we can only wait and see if this price trend continues.

[Aerlana]

When i spoke about mist. ill say it in a shorter way

Before :
the publisher said "we did invest X euros in the game, Y people did buy the game" so we could have an idea of how profit

Now. We know the investment, we can know how much were sold but we are fully enable to say the profit, not even an idea.



A same game sold 100 dollars with no cash shop or 60 dollars with cash shop, in the second way, there is a heavy mist. Does the fully profit of cash shop represent a 40 dollars per people (lets say, 100 000 sold, so cash shop would be 4 million profit) or more? or less?

This is why i would gladly prefer a $20 sub for FFXIV, BUT no cash shop. The cash shop (in any game) is a really good way for publisher to get as much money as they want, and mainly while LYING to customers. SE lie to us. Just watch FFXV... the first buyers have to buy more and more to have the full game, and not only in "cosmetics" way...



WHY do FFXIV needs cash shop, if, from september 2013 to october 2014 they didnt need it?
They had many money, and the game gave heavy profit to SE BEFORE the cash shop.

[Krotoan]

I totally get where you're coming from but I still think you're giving them more leeway than they deserve. Okay, yeah. So the team in charge of the mogstation is a different team from the one working on the rest of the game; of course I know that and expect that. The problem is that they should be putting more money into getting a bigger team to work on the actual game if they can't even fix core issues with the game, since the mogstation may give good income now but it certainly won't continue to do so if the base game is continually getting worse as people expect more and more quality as times change. Any company should be thinking about their quality standard and when considering something technology based, how that quality standard needs to increase as their consumers expect it to. Like you said, textures. They're atrocious. Not at all what I would expect from a big title Final Fantasy MMO in 2018.

No arguments , but that's a different thing. I'm fully supportive of the idea that the FFXIV team needs to have more funding for the base game and improvements. The problem isn't a 12 dollar emote though.

Your seasonal gear argument has some ground, but at the same time consider people who continue to stay subbed even when they can't play and missed the event (has happened to me several times - events only last 2 weeks on average and I've had times where I had no access to my computer for 2 weeks at a time but never dropped my sub since I sub 3 months at a time). Consider the fact that you can get it on as many characters as you are able to for that one standard sub price but can only purchase most items per character on the mogstation. And again, I was suggesting a chance to get the item again only when the seasonal event comes again which means (and I promise you people will), those who are impatient will buy the item whenever.

Not to be too brusque, but if you miss the window you miss the window. All the more reason to be on the game and playing more often. I'll be the first to commiserate with someone who had real life interfere with ingame opportunities (I missed the last kugane expansion and probably my only chance for a while of getting a med house due to a family vacation), but life is kinda full of trading one thing for another.

And no, no, no. I do not think that everything SHOULD be free. Although I do think it's ridiculous to have a cash shop in a sub game to begin with, I absolutely can respect the idea of trying to maximize profits in order to make your product better by reinvesting that money back into it. As I said before, if the improvements to the game were much better, then I'd have no problem with the prices. But as it stands, with what we get? I'm not even saying free, I'm just saying...woah, buddy. ALL OTHER MOGSTATION EXCLUSIVE EMOTES are $7, including the eastern dance which is much more intricate than this. This looks like they basically just added a bunch more effects (that they already have created and saved in their database, none of the effects seem too original honestly) onto the power up emote. What in this emote warrants 5 extra dollars? Because I and many others are not seeing it.

So don't buy it is what I'm saying. If the numbers they show of people buying it are decent, you'll just have to wait til some far off future when it goes on sale. If not it'll go on "sale" sooner and the next emote wont be priced as such. I have very little faith that posting something like "the emote should be free with eureka" or "the emote costs too much" actually does much. But hey, if you think that's going to change someones mind, I'll not challenge it any further. I see enough value in it, and have purchased it. Also, metering what would have been and what is because of the mogstation profits is pretty much impossible. I'm going to keep with they're doing what they can with what they have. I still see us getting decent amounts of content at a reasonable pace, though this last infusion was less than I'd have liked, but I don't think it's for lack of investment.

Let me be clear though: I don't want this emote. Even if it were $7, I don't want it. It just doesn't interest me, just as the power up emote didn't (so don't think I'm just some salty person who is upset because I don't want to pay that much for it). But I happily bought the $7 eastern dance though because I DO enjoy that one. Yeah, $7 still feels a bit steep for an emote but I can accept $7 as reasonable for what it is. I, too, am a realist. Which is why I'm speaking up. And I'm being realistic when I say that this emote isn't worth $12 and that's why there's an uproar about it. YES, there are still plenty of people who WILL buy it at that price because $12 is still quite an accessible price to most people as you mentioned (although, honestly what value meal & ice cream cone are you buying that it costs you $12? If you call that a value meal, I think I've found the problem with our differences in opinion!). That doesn't make it actually WORTH that price though, hence why you have such a huge group of people standing up and saying "What the hell, SE?". I don't think I've really seen all that many complaints for the $7 emotes, except for people who are complaining that the cash shop in general either shouldn't exist or should be cheaper which are also valid points considering again that this is a sub game. However, I should be clear in saying.... While I can certainly understand the people who say that a sub game shouldn't have a cash shop, I understand why SE would want one and I don't fault them for it. It's a company.

Food where I live is more expensive than other places in general. A Mcdonalds value meal ranges from 7-10 bucks. I could use other examples like shots in bars or fireworks (real fireworks) I suppose. It does boil down to personal value but in my general ring of gaming friends 12 dollars for something that you can keep using and adds to my general enjoyment of the game is very little. In mobile gaming 12 dollars buys you very little as well and it's usually very temporary. My personal experience in games that allow any kind of microtransaction has given me much less balk at paying under 20 bucks for whatever.

But again. If you simply say, "Well it's a company so..." to EVERYTHING they push out no matter how overpriced, that's not really an adequate argument. A company will charge whatever it can get away with charging. We as the consumers need to say, "Hey, that's not an ok price." which is what we're doing. At what point does a company become "greedy"? According to you, it sounds like you would answer "never, because a company will always try to make money". True, a company will. But when they are trying to charge more for something without increasing either the quality of that product (again, I fail to see how this emote warrants $5 more than the previous emotes) OR reinvesting that money in a meaningful way (that the consumers benefit from) then they are effectively being greedy. Where is all this money going anyway? I think I heard you mention server upgrades but lets be honest here... that is BASELINE. That is something they should have the money for from subscriptions. I see no other games struggle as much as FFXIV does with server issues. More housing wards? That mess is their own fault honestly. They should have hired competent people to solve the housing issues before it got this bad, either by implementing rules as they did recently (just listening to the customers would have given them this answer as people had been saying this for a long time) or by making apartments more desirable.

So there of course is a limit. If every emote that comes out is expansion price or they double the subscription price it will be obvious they have disconnected from their playerbase and have decided to just see what they can get away with before having to backtrack. EA did this, Bungie is starting to do this. One emote with a very notorious name and effects that mimic an iconic cinematic scene in the game asking for a little more is hardly a step in that direction. There's a point where the playerbase does have to step back and just stop paying for things because the value is far below the price but in my opinion we're still in the "business as usual" range. Let me expound the "server upgrades" a little. They moved their datacenter to an entirely new location that was more fairly located (more equidistant from more people) and upgraded the components. This was not a small investment on their part and wasn't strictly necessary. Baseline for any game as a service is maintenance (part replacement and repair), network integrity (bandwidth and security), software engineering (optimizing and bugfixing), staff wages covered, and little bit to keep the stockholders happy, moving datacenters and hardware upgrades usually are not a part of it. They should have done a LOT of things with housing and server infrastructure, but once again this is a totally different subject and has very little to do with a 12 dollar emote being free or cheaper.

In general, most of what FFXIV offers is at a reasonable price. But they are starting to step out of line with the mogstation and we are speaking up. A realist should recognize that a company has every right to make money but there is a fine line between deserved profit and profit gotten from people who make poor choices with their wallets and have to have EVERYTHING they release regardless of the price.

Lets take a look at an outside example: When it is raining, some stores increase the price of umbrellas. Most people scoff at this price and would NEVER buy it unless they absolutely need to. This is overpriced, but they can still get away with it. Doesn't mean it isn't overpriced and doesn't mean it isn't scummy business practice, despite it being lucrative for the company. The only reason people don't speak out about this (at least as much) is because you can still get a cheaper umbrella if you plan ahead. No choice with ffxiv here though (even if this goes on sale, it will still be more than what an on sale emote should be)! So we must speak up if we don't want this trend to continue.

What you're speaking of is called "price gouging" and is illegal in certain situations and generally a quick way to get yourself dinged with the BBB. The emote here wasn't introduced at a certain price and then when it became apparent it was popular had it's price raised, they just said : here, this thing is 12 dollars. Do you want it? Yes emotes up till now did not cost as much , but none that sold separately from figures have ever had the visual impact and scope of this one yet. It's a different tier visually. But then again that's up to the purchaser to decide. I of course see enough value in it to buy it, so i am going to be a little biased. Once again though if you think posting here will affect anything, feel free. I'll not say anything against someone simply demanding cheaper prices anymore, but saying it should be included in the base game will still get flak from me.

Anyway, I'm not trying to attack you but I really resent you considering yourself a "realist" as if all of us are just uninformed (as you even said) and have no idea how business works. I have had my own business in the past. I totally understand your points. But you can't just give a company a free pass when they raise prices drastically without adding value. Especially when they aren't proving to us that they're really putting a majority of that money back into the game. I get that some of the money will go to their other projects but you can't just continue to take from FFXIV while hardly improving it.

But I guess we can only wait and see if this price trend continues.

I apologize if it sounds as if I'm talking down to anyone, I feel I'm just trying to put information out there that others may have not considered. If you started to speak about business taxes or negotiating employee insurance agreements I'd appreciate any information you would care to pass down, I wouldn't take it as someone telling me I was stupid , being uninformed happens and if I hear people speak of things as if they're not aware of certain aspects then I try to present information that they may not have.
How do you want it proven though? Should we get an itemized breakdown of what money came in and went to what? People in the forums are not mature enough or educated enough (myself included) to make judgements on that kind of data. You want them to say "mogstation money got this for the game" every time something they couldn't have done without the mogstation profits is developed or implemented? It's a difficult proposition at best to "prove" that they're using the money as they've said.
If , as you suspect, SE is just trying to test waters to see if people can stomach a new pricepoint for emotes and all new emotes start being 10-12 dollars regardless of intricacy or impact then yes, I'd say we have a reason to ask "hey, why the increase?" But one emote that's pretty shmancy being a little more expensive? I'm not concerned.

This is why i would gladly prefer a $20 sub for FFXIV, BUT no cash shop. The cash shop (in any game) is a really good way for publisher to get as much money as they want, and mainly while LYING to customers. SE lie to us. Just watch FFXV... the first buyers have to buy more and more to have the full game, and not only in "cosmetics" way...

There are many people who do not care about the cash shop and would be instantly enraged if they were told "you'll get everything in the cash shop, but your monthly fee is going to increase."
This really isn't about content you're being denied because they've decided to put it somewhere else under a paywall (sorta.. we're in a gray area for seasonal things). It's a matter of SE finding a market for people who ARE willing to drop more money on something beyond the base game and giving them an incentive to drop a few more dollars into their coffers for an optional trinket. I'm not sure how they're lying in this case. They've been very upfront about what goes in it. I understand you may be incensed about the way other game teams handled their release and sales, but the cash shop isn't smoke and mirrors with planned content they decided to make you pay for later because they think the game is more valuable than they can price it. We've never had a story quest or progression or job locked behind anything beyond Game purchase price and expansion price.

[FallenArisen0990]

Rather spend be 12 dollars then the 150+ ones...

[Mikki]

If , as you suspect, SE is just trying to test waters to see if people can stomach a new pricepoint for emotes and all new emotes start being 10-12 dollars regardless of intricacy or impact then yes, I'd say we have a reason to ask "hey, why the increase?" But one emote that's pretty shmancy being a little more expensive? I'm not concerned.

That is the point though. We are speaking up BECAUSE we don't want this to be the norm. If the staff sees this and it's passed on to the dev team, then hopefully it won't be the case. Yes, this emote is a bit more flashy. But again, I stand by what I said: There is very little there that warrants it. Reused animations. It's hardly unique. But hey! Maybe SE made it more expensive because they knew it would annoy the heck outta people so they made it cheaper so less people would spam it in town? haha...

In any case, you're right. It's impossible to say for sure how much money they have and where it goes but I think we can all agree that they could be doing so much more and they simply aren't and I think this is where a lot of the frustration is coming from. Considering how big this MMO is and that it IS a Final Fantasy title, I expect better. But alas, I suppose it doesn't matter. But I did want to touch on the server thing... they did change server location but that's probably because the servers were absolute shite and it was an inevitability from the start, just a matter of when to do it is my guess. When the servers are constantly having issues, then it's necessary to find a place that can better serve your needs; just makes sense to find a new service area that also makes more sense for your customers too (although actually it ended up worse for many Americans, but hey west coast is basically where all business is so you know...it isn't a surprising move). When FFXIV started, they assumed it wouldn't be very successful considering 1.0's flop. I'd wager the place they had their servers couldn't keep upgrading to handle the growing demand. This is basically non-negotiable. If you want to grow your business, you have to upgrade to keep up.

Anyway, you keep talking as if the player base complaining here isn't going to change anything. That's the tone I'm getting from you (maybe I'm wrong on that but you keep saying it like "Well, if you think this will change anything..." in a tone that reads "go ahead, waste your time"), but I'd like to remind you that it was exactly that that prompted the dev team to add more housing wards. They do keep an eye out and they do listen. When we complain enough, it'll be known.That being said, the title of this post is indeed ridiculous. I don't think it should have been a eureka reward, as it has nothing to do with eureka. Could it have been free? Yeah, sure. But I'm not saying it SHOULD have been. Just that it should have been $7. I'm willing to bet that the eastern dance took far more effort to animate than this one did.

Anyway, I'm not touching on everything because I'm tired of writing a book. I think we both have valid arguments but there's no point in arguing them since we can't see how much money SE is making from what and we don't know the real motive behind them pricing it at $12. All I'm saying is that I personally am commenting and speaking out on this because I don't want this to be the new normal price tag and I don't personally see the value in this specific emote that makes it warrant $12. That's basically it. You seem to find the value so you bought it and that's fine, too. But for us who don't think it's worth that, I guess we'll just keep being vocal.

[Divinemights]

To be fair, you “speak up” by not buying the emote, the sales number tells the story, not hete

[Wanzer]

To be fair, you “speak up” by not buying the emote, the sales number tells the story, not hete

They still need feedbacks. You can't just ask people to remain silent, even if it annoys you.
And here, it's the best place to do so. If you are selling something and you never see any customers, maybe you would like to know why. Numbers can't tell you anything about this : is it because it sucks? Is it the price? etc.

Just a friendly reminder, third point :

[MilanFrozen]

Buy expansion, pay subscription fee, pay for inventory space AND some of the best stuff is locked behind paying. Probably one of the greediest things you can do. I'm torn between finding it hilarious that it's acceptable and mad because I'll never get to have any of them.

[Krotoan]

Buy expansion, pay subscription fee, pay for inventory space AND some of the best stuff is locked behind paying. Probably one of the greediest things you can do. I'm torn between finding it hilarious that it's acceptable and mad because I'll never get to have any of them.

Greedy for asking for payment for services rendered. Roger. See you on the outside where you have to pay for things you don't even use.

[Luin]

What do fireworks have to do with Eureka? Nothing, yet they are still a reward from lockboxes. The point you are trying to make here has fallen flat on its face.

...but anyway, as far as an Ultimate Coil reward...I don't see the issue there. In an expansion or 2 a lot of people will come back when it's easier, but for now and for awhile, the rewards available from Ultimate will be special.

It won't be easier, Ultimate is ilvl synced to 345. As it is now, they hinted that it won't be removed. And besides that, ultimate coil can't be brute forced. An extra 10 levels won't make a difference to a vast majority of players, it has too many instant kill mechanics. Not a mechanic that does "kind of" an instant kill. An instant kill.

And no, fireworks have plenty to do with Eureka. This isn't some random, unexplored island that showed up out of the aether. People *lived* there. There was civilization there. Fireworks are used as simple advertisement, such as the mythril eye, to emergency uses like the Grand Company tracers.

Edit - Besides that, you're ridiculous for even equating simple fireworks to anything related to BAHAMUT. Bahamut is literally the only reason FFXIV ARR is ARR. Bahamut is the single most important plot element in the game.