please consider ending the mentor system

[Metalwrath]

Like ive stated before the mentor requirements need to be upped and they need to start punishing them for constantly abandoning duties they dont like when they load.
Yes toxic players exist in both mentor form and non mentor form but the facts are there has been a large increase of toxic mentors that are now outweighing the good ones out there.
I've seen first hand too many times the way mentors act badly towards players both on my main and then on my alt when most of them were trying to pull for my warrior in low level dungeons.Or the classic im gonna pull the boss as soon as im able to regardless if the team is ready.It goes on the whole time in alliance roulette too.
I dont want to see the mentor system removed.I just want to see it improved in a way they can deter or eliminate the bad ones.

[Rowde]

I sifted through the first page and last five, not sure if this has been mentioned or not.

Looking back at the OP... I see two main points:

1) In any mildly challenging duty mentors will often quit straight away.
2) A not insignificant number will actually deliberately sabotage events.


Making mentor status harder to achieve doesn't fix either of these issues.
I assume this behavior occurs because the offenders are trying to speed through to the glamour/mount achievement as fast as possible, and not because they necessarily want to help novices learn older content... or even enjoy it.

Now, concern 2 can already be addressed in game. You can, and should, report ppl for intentionally wiping a group and/or being toxic. But you need to create an evidence trail in the chat log. Ask them politely to stop or change the offending behavior a few times so a GM can see that that an attempt at communication was made and subsequently ignored by the offending player.

For the OP's first concern... perhaps the severity of abandoning a duty needs to be increased for Mentor Roulette. Right now it's a 30 minute penalty for abandoning in the first 10 minutes. I'd like to consider a 3 hour penalty for abandoning in the first 45 minutes. These rules would be exclusive to Mentors doing Mentor roulette, but the if a Mentor is penalized then the penalty applies to all forms of duties (other roulettes, dungeons, trials, etc.).

Essentially make the punishment incredibly detrimental for the toxic ppl that are trying to rush the achievement. Is it even worth it for them to queue at that point? Forty-five minutes is a long time to wait for abandon, and afk'ing that long to force a kick is reportable. So risk getting banned or just not queue? I'd rather keep the bad personalities out completely.

[Rowde]

LoL...

I'm dead serious.

In that long winded example you gave, where everyone just left... you arguably had enough evidence there to report that player for trolling. The problem is that it's easier to just leave rather than to take the time to report the player and potentially get them at least an interview with a GM to address their behavior.

The OP's concern was about Mentor's immediately abandoning and taking the 30 minute penalty when presented with semi-hard content, i.e. most level 50 EX Trials.
These ppl have already grown accustomed to a 30 minute timeout for immediately abandoning, so the punishment has to actually be escalated. I think 3 hour penalty is fair to keep anyone that isn't seriously interested with actually, you know, mentoring other players.

I also think 45 min before abandoning is fair amount of time for honest attempts. The fact of the matter is, you might not clear content in Mentor Roulette. You might be placed with a new player who is trying to learn the fight... I've been in learning parties for current content where progress didn't occur until 50 min in... And sure, that can happen in dungeons too, it's just uncommon. Sure no dungeon should take more than 20 min for experienced players, but that's not what you are signing up for with Mentor Roulette as a Mentor. That attitude that "no content should take more than x amount of time" is completely contradictory to the attitude a mentor SHOULD have.

Also bear in mind, that proposed 45 minutes before abandon just applies to the MENTOR, if another player decides to abandon first after 10 minutes, thus making the party "no longer complete", then the Mentor would be able to leave at that point without penalty like any other player.

[Paladinleeds]

Also bear in mind, that proposed 45 minutes before abandon just applies to the MENTOR, if another player decides to abandon first after 10 minutes, thus making the party "no longer complete", then the Mentor would be able to leave at that point without penalty like any other player.

Nothing to stop the mentor peer pressuring someone else that isn't queued via mentor roulette to make the abandon, or putting up a vote kick (which could go through) to try and free up a slot so they can leave without penalty. You have to remember, these nasty players that don't care aren't afraid to pull out all the stops. See the fake disconnects to get kicked to avoid a penalty already. I'm not against your idea, but we have to make sure as holes are spotted, we get them plugged.

[Tridus]

The OP's concern was about Mentor's immediately abandoning and taking the 30 minute penalty when presented with semi-hard content, i.e. most level 50 EX Trials.
These ppl have already grown accustomed to a 30 minute timeout for immediately abandoning, so the punishment has to actually be escalated. I think 3 hour penalty is fair to keep anyone that isn't seriously interested with actually, you know, mentoring other players.

If you need to bludgeon people like this, maybe it'd make more sense to not put it into the roulette in the first place? This content is done in PF. SE just needs to recognize the reality of the situation and stop trying to inflict it on mentors and newbies who don't know better.

[Vstarstruck]

I also think 45 min before abandoning is fair amount of time for honest attempts. .

No it is not, all you are doing is increasing trolling mentors while solving nothing.
45 mins is too long to be sitting there and have people not even try to listen to you, furthermore why is only the mentor getting this 3 hr penalty? the point I was making was others need it as well who are trying to troll and sabotage.

All you are doing is trying to punish mentors for no reason. No I fully oppose that. I am sorry you are trying to punish the whole group of mentors because of a select few. That is not fair to them.

[Rowde]

No it is not, all you are doing is increasing trolling mentors while solving nothing.
45 mins is too long to be sitting there and have people not even try to listen to you, furthermore why is only the mentor getting this 3 hr penalty? the point I was making was others need it as well who are trying to troll and sabotage.

All you are doing is trying to punish mentors for no reason. No I fully oppose that. I am sorry you are trying to punish the whole group of mentors because of a select few. That is not fair to them.

Please... don't play the victim card. You and I both know that Mentors abandoning any trial or dungeon that might be perceived as "difficult" or "taking too long" is far more rampant a problem than these supposed groups of trolls that get together with the sole purpose of making life difficult for Mentors.

This issue is prevalent in all roulettes in fact, I still see ppl insta drop from Steps of Faith even though that Trial is auto-win now. Can easily be cleared sync'd with six ppl before hitting the second wall and ignoring dragonators.

However, other roulettes are other roulettes. Mentor Roulette is a different beast entirely. The issue is that far too many ppl treat it like "just another roulette" and aren't actually prepared, or possibly even capable, to potentially have to help and/or teach new players how to complete the duty they get placed into. Increasing the penalties for bad behavior by Mentors using the roulette will also serve as a deterrent to keep these poor mentors out.

AND once again, If you can prove that another player is actively trolling and or sabotaging you need to be reporting the incident and help the GMs build a proper case against that individual so they can potentially take informed actions up to and including bans. Not rage quitting and just letting them repeat the cycle against somebody else. I know, it requires an extra amount of effort, patience and levelheadedness to have the resolve and initiative to fill out one of these reports... but arguably, those are all traits a good mentor should have anyway...

[Reinha]

However, other roulettes are other roulettes. Mentor Roulette is a different beast entirely. The issue is that far too many ppl treat it like "just another roulette" and aren't actually prepared, or possibly even capable, to potentially have to help and/or teach new players how to complete the duty they get placed into. Increasing the penalties for bad behavior by Mentors using the roulette will also serve as a deterrent to keep these poor mentors out.

According to patch notes the purpose of Mentor Roulette is to fill queues for all kinds of content. Nothing more. So it is just another roulette and any other meaning is something the players (and you) are making up. The responsibilities of a Mentor wearing the icon are identical whether they were placed in the duty by Mentor Roulette or not.

I'm not against increasing the penalty for leaving a duty or for being kicked from one, but these measures should be applied to all players. Mentors are supposed to be exemplars of players etiquette, so if you want them to stay in duties and try harder then you should expect the same of everyone else. No one should get a free pass to behave poorly.

[PerrinTaveren]

@Paladinleeds, yeah the most different thing was playing with other people and i was nervous. after they called me noob and kicked me, i was really really upset. I didn't even know what i did. And after that experience i hated tanking. I still do. It makes me so nervous, i feel like players still think i am a noob or something. I know i am at least above mediocore tank but still, when you play the game for the first time and people call you bad and kick you, for me, i lost my confidence for tanking. That's why mentor system should NOT be removed. It may be improved but i think i am helping people who are at the same kinda place as i was, and it makes me happy.

[Okamimaru]

'i didn't know there were even guides for ex fights etc.''. I joined at the end of ARR, there was no mentor system, no novice network whatsoever.

First mmo or not...hell it could be your first video game... if you don't know something you look it up... before the internet, games came with booklets that told you information on how to play the game... now days it's online... it's stupid to expect someone to sit down and explain what a tank is, what AoE means, why you need to wear real armor and not lvl 1 glam gears ect in a dungeon/trial/raid... that's all stuff you should have a basic grasp on... I'm all for helping but I refuse to hand hold and babysit you because you didn't think to educate yourself even a hair before making yourself a burden on the people who got stuck in an instance with you... if we are in any instance all you're gonna get is a rundown of the mechanics... if you don't know the very basics that's totally on you...