FFXIV shows what's wrong with MMOs (Not what you think)

[Remedi]

Wow had a reasonably coherent story early on. It was never terribly good, but it made enough sense that you could follow it and there was logical progression as to why things happened. There was a pretty strong RP community for a while and we had a lot to work with.

Then it went full on with "change the story to suit whatever we feel like doing this week" and ceased to make any sense whatsoever.

No, wow had no story early on
It thrived with the concept of exploring the warcraft world and had very simplistic story to it because the foxus was exploring the world.
They started going bonkers when they wanted to focus more on story and ppl got the mess that they are giving them now.

[Vahlnir]

No, wow had no story early on
It thrived with the concept of exploring the warcraft world and had very simplistic story to them.
They started going bonkers when they wanted to focus more on story and ppl got the mess that they are giving them now.

It has had a pretty large focus on the story since at least Wrath. I don't recall people ever complaining about that. They didn't go far enough in Cata, and I genuinely think that the story through Cata was an abomination. They went a little crazy in MoP with the dailies (which had some story behind it) but people weren't upset about the story. The journey from 85-90 was a wonderful experience...also full of story. They were upset about endgame crafting patterns and gear being locked behind daily quests. In WoD...the story was great, there was a large focus on it...but when the story ended at max level, that was basically it. They failed to save the expansion due to many problems (and suffered some pretty major cash loss) and pushed out Legion instead in an attempt to stop the bleeding. Legion has been largely story driven, and again...have heard no complaints about that. How they've handled a few things has been questionable, namely the time gating. But no one has complained that there was too much focus on the story. The story is a large part of the game. Has been for awhile now. They also encourage exploration, which XIV doesn't go far enough with.

FF XIV's focus on story is a bit more intense because it's an FF title. For better or worse. Only difference between WoW and XIV in this case is one game needs cut scenes to do it. WoW uses them sparingly yet delivers a story all the same, whether it's through quests, dungeons or raids. The game's just a bit more action oriented. The most intense moments of the story are usually played out in cut scenes though.

[Remedi]

It has had a pretty large focus on the story since at least Wrath. I don't recall people ever complaining about that. They didn't go far enough in Cata, and I genuinely think that the story through Cata was an abomination. They went a little crazy in MoP with the dailies (which had some story behind it) but people weren't upset about the story. The journey from 85-90 was a wonderful experience...also full of story. They were upset about endgame crafting patterns and gear being locked behind daily quests. In WoD...the story was great, there was a large focus on it...but when the story ended at max level, that was basically it. They failed to save the expansion due to many problems (and suffered some pretty major cash loss) and pushed out Legion instead in an attempt to stop the bleeding. Legion has been largely story driven, and again...have heard no complaints about that. How they've handled a few things has been questionable, namely the time gating. But no one has complained that there was too much focus on the story. The story is a large part of the game. Has been for awhile now. They also encourage exploration, which XIV doesn't go far enough with.

FF XIV's focus on story is a bit more intense because it's an FF title. For better or worse. Only difference between WoW and XIV in this case is one game needs cut scenes to do it. WoW uses them sparingly yet delivers a story all the same, whether it's through quests, dungeons or raids. The game's just a bit more action oriented. The most intense moments of the story are usually played out in cut scenes though..

I don't share your vision on legion and wod story, frankly they are for me all missed chances or just downright terrible with the only execption frostfire ridge.
That said I was talking about vanilla and tbc, where the game had really no story because the focus of the game was more on exploration.
Frankly ppl didn't care about beign the hero or w/e they simply wanted to see the places and heroes of the warcraft games and it continued with wotlk where they started lenieng towards a better storytelling, however they started what I call him the drama soap opera of the faction war no matter the cost, which frankly some ppl are starting to feel tired about, but MUH WARCRAFT is always their response since they have actually no courage about writing anything different, though they created an interesting character like lei-shen so go figure

[Ilyrian]

No, wow had no story early on
It thrived with the concept of exploring the warcraft world and had very simplistic story to it because the foxus was exploring the world.
They started going bonkers when they wanted to focus more on story and ppl got the mess that they are giving them now.

I think that WoW is just a victim of it's own success now - there's only so much story you can eek out of the narrative they set up.
Battle for Azeroth (the forthcoming expansion) seems to be (another) soft reboot after having done the 'elves in space' mad cosmic-opera that was the end of Legion.
The thing that keeps WoW relevant, to me at least, is the characters and time spent with them - for all the crap they get Blizzard are good at creating worlds and characters people want to invest in.

[Tridus]

No, wow had no story early on
It thrived with the concept of exploring the warcraft world and had very simplistic story to it because the foxus was exploring the world.
They started going bonkers when they wanted to focus more on story and ppl got the mess that they are giving them now.

... yes it did. It had lots of stories. What it didn't have early on was a single overarching plot. That came later. But there was stories all over the place and vanilla, and TBC had every zone basically telling a story.

[Remedi]

... yes it did. It had lots of stories. What it didn't have early on was a single overarching plot. That came later. But there was stories all over the place and vanilla, and TBC had every zone basically telling a story.

Fair enough, but I was idd referring to plot and overall story, not mini stories which were idd presents but not really a game plot and frankly the game was sold on the idea of exploring the warcraft world not really just a continuation of it.
Frankly some plot points of tbc were kinda well hidden.
I also have the feeling that they kinda rewrote some of the bosses lore from tbc and wotlk when they added the dungeon journal

[KaldeaSahaline]

I find myself fully engrossed and engaged in this game. I think about it even when I'm not logged in playing it.

Then I come to these forums and see non-stop complaining about everything. And as someone coming from WoW and other Western MMOs, I truly wonder if you guys know how great you have it. Honestly.

MMOs in the West are having a tough time. Mostly because it's all about ilvls and/or PvP ratings. FFXIV is about the story. And that's rare these days.

Hope you guys recognize that in between your constant complaining.

You're not even max level yet. That's why you don't understand the complaining.You're effectively experiencing nearly 4-5 years of content in rapidity (so of course it feels great). Get to max level (and please take your time and enjoy the ride there), but you'll find that you may have issues when you get there and there's no more story to keep you engaged until you get the next 2 hour quest chain in a few months and all that's left is some shallow side content or a handful of boss arena encounters to tide you over.

To each their own. You sound like the type of player that would be comfortably at home in a game like WoW. And that's TOTALLY cool. I played that game for 13 years. They don't care about story at all. It's all about raiding and gear progression. WoW players have long abandoned any care about story because they realized Blizzard doesn't really care about it. They just retcon and come up with nonsensical stuff because reasons. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. They know their playerbase.

I mean you say you played Legion, but you don't have ANYTHING positive to say about the experience? The entire Suramar quest story and all the nuanced characters and the real danger you felt in the city, etc.? It's honestly some of the better storytelling I've seen in a long while and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Surprised you are marginalizing it so heavily. It's starting to sound more like bias that actual good analysis TBH.

If someone comes to a game, and hates some core aspect of it (eg the story, the gameplay or the art style, the fact that it requires multiplayer interaction, all of which I've seen on this forum) What exactly is the point of playing it?

So we're only allowed to play if we 100% have NO issues with ANY aspects of a game? I mean I love the McLaren F1, but I think its interior looks goofy with just a singular center seat. Does that mean I hate the entirety of the car and should never jump at the chance to drive/own one (if it was within my means)? That's one of the most staggeringly asinine stances I've ever seen someone mention.

[Lium]

I mean you say you played Legion, but you don't have ANYTHING positive to say about the experience? The entire Suramar quest story and all the nuanced characters and the real danger you felt in the city, etc.?

Suramar was very pretty to look at. One of the best zones in all of WoW from a visual standpoint. I also really enjoyed the music. And yes, the story about the resistance and the history behind it was surprisingly well written.

But the meth addicts and constantly having to get them meth (mana) to progress through the story was super annoying. Not to mention the rep requirements. It soured me on the whole experience. Pathfinder was probably the main reason I started hating that zone and vowed never to go back.

Your point about me not being max level yet is valid. And I've thought about that. Things will change once I'm all caught up with everything. But FFXIV is still a unique game.

[KisaiTenshi]

So we're only allowed to play if we 100% have NO issues with ANY aspects of a game? I mean I love the McLaren F1, but I think its interior looks goofy with just a singular center seat. Does that mean I hate the entirety of the car and should never jump at the chance to drive/own one (if it was within my means)? That's one of the most staggeringly asinine stances I've ever seen someone mention.

No, you are just looking for a fight.

I'll rephrase for you:

Wow that's a pretty game, too bad the gameplay is atrocious, guess I'm just going to use some cheat codes, because the gameplay is garbage. /s

Wow that's an ugly game, but the gameplay is awesome, everyone should just skip the cutscenes because they are garbage. /s

This game has some of the best worldbuilding and lore, too bad it's cutscenes drag on and on and on. /s

I love this game's story, too bad the multiplayer is trash, I hope they make every storyline part solo. /s

Like, if you don't like the game, quit it. Period. You would not be here if it does not minimally appeal to you to spend time on it. If Square-Enix wants to attract more players like you, who do not like some core aspect, they are not going to do so by changing nothing. There are people who play games entirely to do the achievements, and care nothing for the game content itself. Thank Microsoft for that, now everything is a competition.

That's why the games tend to slide towards becoming easier over time. If you nerf the gameplay down to "press x to win" QTE's, then everyone can play and enjoy the storyline, but the people who liked the game before will be outraged and leave. The gameplay is always the first thing that gets nerfed to make it have a broader appeal.

Who spends the most money in a subscription game? The people who buy all the retainers. Yet there really is very little for crafters to do in the game because whatever you can craft is obsolete by whatever comes out of the 8-man and 24-man raids.

[Skivvy]

No, you are just looking for a fight.

No one is picking a fight. You started the conversation saying:

If someone comes to a game, and hates some core aspect of it (eg the story, the gameplay or the art style, the fact that it requires multiplayer interaction, all of which I've seen on this forum) What exactly is the point of playing it?

That's rather narrow-sighted, and it got called out. Your latest comment is stating:

Like, if you don't like the game, quit it. Period. You would not be here if it does not minimally appeal to you to spend time on it.

This is much more reasonable and I think most people would agree with it. I personally hate XIV's story, and skip almost all of it. However, I'm still around as I find other things enjoyable. That's the joy of an MMO. It's designed to appeal to many different people with a variety of tastes.