please stop make the game easier.

[Dualgunner]

Most people don't ignore Yojimbo's coin mechanics, and he only picks up one or two coins. Now how do you balance that for a challenge?

A lot of the "make it hard" people have no idea how to actually make things harder. With yojimbo, there's only so many coins four players can pick up at a time, and they are unable to do anything while doing so. One hit breaks the picking up. The actual mechanic is pretty precise

The problem is that you can literally ignore every coin, and survive with a pitiful amount of damage. Also no, the mechanic isn't precise at all; yes, getting hit by something interrupts your progress, but there's only one source of damage possible at that time, and it's slow to start becoming an issue.

To answer "That's why there aren't any activatable icons", remember Rabanastre came *after* V2S. EDIT: In specific, the dark circles mechanic, where the arena is covered with dark circles that all need to be clicked on.

[RiyahArp]

Nothing attacks you at all in rab, you just have a bleeding debuff. Its easier to do it than yojimbo, actually. You wiped on it because people thought they should stand in the circles, not click them. And as players do yojimbo now, they don't ignore coins anyways because they can't damage the boss while coins are out. So in practice, most players don't fail the mechanic at all. And when I do that dungeon, people always dodge his stuff and do him mechanically fine. I don't know why people complain about the coins, its a mechanic similar more to Greg's frogs than anything.

[Dualgunner]

Nothing attacks you at all in rab, you just have a bleeding debuff. Its easier to do it than yojimbo, actually.

And yet it stands as direct evidence against your claim that the devs no longer use this mechanic type because of duty actions.

You wiped on it because people thought they should stand in the circles, not click them.

You wipe in Rabanastre at every fight for all sorts of reasons. Though to be fair, that fight isn't clear about many of its mechanics.

And as players do yojimbo now, they don't ignore coins anyways because they can't damage the boss while coins are out. So in practice, most players don't fail the mechanic at all.

The issue, again, is that even when the mechanic is failed, the whole party survives--and not only survives, but survives relatively unscathed.

I don't know why people complain about the coins, its a mechanic similar more to Greg's frogs than anything.

Maybe if you listened to people's actual arguments, instead of attacking what you wish they'd have said, you'd know the complaint. Yay, the mechanic is easy to not fail! So are lots of mechanics in the game. But this mechanic, again like lots of mechanics in the game, doesn't punish you for failing. And again, as said earlier, failing in this mechanic would mean not picking up a single coin, or missing more coins than not.

[Zojha]

[...]-and not only survives, but survives relatively unscathed.

FFXIV woes.

Where "taking out half of everyone's HP" equals "relatively unscathed", "no punishment" and "a pitiful amount of damage". Where taking everyone to 1 HP to follow up with a raid-wide AoE is an easy normal mode mechanic. And that's not even a punishment for failure, it just happens.

Poor enemies sure don't have it easy 'round these parts.

[Dualgunner]

FFXIV woes.

Where "taking out half of everyone's HP" equals "relatively unscathed", "no punishment" and "a pitiful amount of damage". Where taking everyone to 1 HP to follow up with a raid-wide AoE is an easy normal mode mechanic. And that's not even a punishment for failure, it just happens.

Poor enemies sure don't have it easy 'round these parts.

When one to two GCDs of healing top everyone up, yeah it's relatively unscathing.

[Tridus]

When one to two GCDs of healing top everyone up, yeah it's relatively unscathing.

Which is a problem with the healing design, rather than encounter design. Healing is far, far too powerful.

[loreleidiangelo]

Which is a problem with the healing design, rather than encounter design. Healing is far, far too powerful.

I've been arguing this since ARR, and it feels like only now people are starting to catch on. It's why raids are basically one-shot gimmicks or bust, and loaded to the brim with strict DPS requirements. The devs know there's nothing remotely challenging for a skilled healer in this game except spamming 3 DPS buttons between heals while not going OOM, so they don't bother creating meaningful healing mechanics (like persistent bleeds or whatever; I think Almagest is the only one we've ever had and two healers just facerolled some AOE regens to deal with that) and just make most mechanics in Savage a one-shot. And because b-rezzes are all over the damned place here it's also why most mechanics require all 8 people in your raid to be alive (or you wipe due to mechanics overlapping), and why DPS checks are so strict to begin with (because they know healers can just chain-rez with pretty much 0 penalty, so fights can't afford to be attrition wars because XIV healers will easily win that battle).

I don't really get how people can praise healing in this game except for the fact that the spells look pretty and it's the easiest role to kinda "coast" on (the "just gonna heal" types you get in dungeons). They're all surprisingly homogeneous in their design and laughably overpowered in both PVE and PVP. It's frustrating too because I know the devs will never go back to the drawing board for healing design and that this kinda playstyle will never change.

[RiyahArp]

It's a bit annoying that someone tells me to listen to actual arguments while not even understanding mine.

1. Its hard to make yojimbo's coins harder because of the mechanic of picking things up.
2. I think they made duty action to remedy this, because you dont need to click on things, just hit the action over the object.
3. Yes, rab has the mechanic too, but even easier; there is nothing to interrupt it.
4. People already do the mechanic perfectly, not missing any coins in most of the instances I've seen; if they miss it, its one or two.

you seem to be "omg! he forgot rab has it too!" without even reading anything else.

[Dualgunner]

It's a bit annoying that someone tells me to listen to actual arguments while not even understanding mine.

It's easy to say that, but the evidence shows you're the one ignoring/misunderstanding arguments.

1. Its hard to make yojimbo's coins harder because of the mechanic of picking things up.

No, it isn't. The mechanic of picking things up is easy in and of itself, and moreover, it can definitely be harder than "everybody went afk for this mechanic and we're fine."

2. I think they made duty action to remedy this, because you dont need to click on things, just hit the action over the object.

And yet we still have current content using clicking in Rabanastre, which came after 6s.
EDIT: Here's a hint for my point here: if they are using duty action to completely phase out clicking, they're doing a bad job of it because Rabanastre still uses clicking.

3. Yes, rab has the mechanic too, but even easier; there is nothing to interrupt it.

You can step on landmines and get interrupted.

4. People already do the mechanic perfectly, not missing any coins in most of the instances I've seen; if they miss it, its one or two.

But wait Riyah, I thought the clicking mechanic was too hard. It can't be so easy everybody does it perfectly, and yet so hard they can't make it punishing for not doing it.

you seem to be "omg! he forgot rab has it too!" without even reading anything else.

Your arguments are contradictory at worst and argumentative for argument's sake at best. You're missing the point on purpose: Yojimbo's mechanic isn't punishing enough if you were to just blatantly ignore it. It creates a precedent of carelessness.

[Tridus]

It's a bit annoying that someone tells me to listen to actual arguments while not even understanding mine.

Or maybe you're just wrong?

1. Its hard to make yojimbo's coins harder because of the mechanic of picking things up.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to make something harder than "ignore it entirely and still pass." There's a wide gap between requiring 100% coin pickup or wiping a party, and the current version where you can ignore it entirely, pick up no coins, and still not have a single person die even when you don't outgear it.

I have no understanding of how you can't tell the difference. It's impossible to fail this mechanic. Why even bother with it except as window dressing?

2. I think they made duty action to remedy this, because you dont need to click on things, just hit the action over the object.

They added duty actions because of stuff like Vrill and the levitation thing that don't have anything to click on. It certainly helps with the brush because clicking on something with 8 other people on top of it is pretty hard, but that doesn't apply to the coins as you're spread out and they're huge, easy targets. Making you walk up to it and press the duty action button would change very little about the difficulty.

3. Yes, rab has the mechanic too, but even easier; there is nothing to interrupt it.

There's a reason why Rab is considered to have front loaded difficulty, after all.

4. People already do the mechanic perfectly, not missing any coins in most of the instances I've seen; if they miss it, its one or two.

I was in one the other day that missed half of them. It makes no difference. That's the whole problem: there's no real reason to care a lot about it because failing it doesn't matter in the slightest.