please stop make the game easier.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Good thing there isn't any content like that in the game then.

A good number of dungeons fit that description. Even the story mode trials give echo upon failure, thereby adding less incentive to improve. Why care if you wipe when the game will gift you permanent Trick Attack?

[WilhelmWhite]

Based on the complaint OP made, it seems as if they want to see the Unsynced/Undersized Party option removed. .....Which won't happen.

[MilanFrozen]

It's almost as if they're a company that wants to make money from as many people as possible so are reaching out to a wider audience...

I think the problem with this is that most people don't realize that eventually everyone will increase in skill. Even the worst players will get better and eventually the game has to reach a point of critical mass where it becomes so easy that the only way to go is back up in difficulty, but they won't be able to do that. You might think or even say 'sure they can', but they won't because the upward trend of making the game easier gives the incorrect assumption that making the game EVEN EASIER will bring back players that they've lost and only further put them in the hole. Wanting to get out of the hole by making the game even easier, and so on, is just going to keep digging it deeper.


As much as people want to believe that 'games are made to have fun', there is a such thing as 'too easy' even for the most casual player. Most often they don't even realize it. Because they're casual. They don't have any concept of gleaning enjoyment from challenge. Most people don't and that's why they ask for nerfs in the first place.

[RiyahArp]

The echo is there probably because at that point in time, it takes a relatively long time to get people to do that old content. If the new player has been waiting for 20 min to do that trial, having it disband after one wipe isn't healthy. And I've come into enough instances in progress as a tank where that can be a risk. Making story content hard comes with the problem that veterans no longer need to do story content to progress in the game any; the vets get all their progression from savage, pvp, eureka, or other means.

We see this when people complain about ex trials in mentor roulette.

[MistakeNot]

A good number of dungeons fit that description.

Perhaps the first two - but those are supposed to be fairly easy.
In the rest it is quite easy to wipe if you don't know what you are doing. (Assuming you don't grossly outgear or outlevel the dungeon of course - but in that case it is not the dungeon which is easy, but the character who is too powerful for the dungeon.)

[DreadRabbit]

Perhaps the first two - but those are supposed to be fairly easy.
In the rest it is quite easy to wipe if you don't know what you are doing. (Assuming you don't grossly outgear or outlevel the dungeon of course - but in that case it is not the dungeon which is easy, but the character who is too powerful for the dungeon.)

Agreed. I really wish people would understand the "to YOU" part of this argument. I feel like a lot of folks who keep saying "too easy" or that content is "braindead" have not partied with legit sprouts/new players in a long time. Sunken Temple of Qarn and the Stone Vigil (normal mode mind you) both come to mind. Both are ARR dungeons and the mechanics really aren't difficult to navigate around if you know them and know how.

In Qarn just a few days ago I was in a party with someone who had never done the dungeon before and another who had never tanked it before. Guess what? We wiped twice, once on each of the first two bosses. When it finally clicked what was going on I asked if anyone knew how to fight the final boss, and the sprout spoke up that they didn't. Spent a few minutes typing out what to look out for and how to handle it. We had a close call after the fight was explained, but we managed to squeak out the clear. There was no way I could have "face-rolled" that run because I had to pay attention to what my team was doing and pick up where they couldn't.

Stone Vigil was a similar story. The first boss there is one of the first few in the game that doesn't telegraph its room-wide AoE. So if you don't watch a guide and know to get behind him, you don't think you're going to eat damage. I know because we wiped to that guy because the tank and the other dps didn't know this.

Hell, level 70 fully geared players still eat Titan normal's landslides. I know because I watched two of them when I did it for my MSQ clear on my current character.

So no...content isn't braindead, you've just graduated beyond it and need a new challenge. That's a different fight altogether.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip.

Coincidentally, when people ask for reference points as to what the difficulty should be, Stone Vigil, Qarn and Titan are all mentioned as highlights. They posed legitimate challenges—something virtually no supposed Expert dungeon does. People cite many dungeons "braindead" because they offer little challenge even at level. Look at Kugane Castle, Ala Mhigo and Temple of the Fist. Tanks were doing mega pulls in i290 job gear. An even better example is Yojimbo's coin mechanics. If you ignore them, he deals approximately 15-20k. There is no job that is remotely threatened by that. It doesn't help we out-gear a good portion of the content before it even releases. Hell's Lid is a better dungeon than many of its predecessors but it's still only i310. You know, the highest ilvl we could obtain nine months ago.

Leveling dungeons generally aren't the issue. It's everything that comes after them where the difficulty simply does not scale.

[RiyahArp]

Most people don't ignore Yojimbo's coin mechanics, and he only picks up one or two coins. Now how do you balance that for a challenge?

A lot of the "make it hard" people have no idea how to actually make things harder. With yojimbo, there's only so many coins four players can pick up at a time, and they are unable to do anything while doing so. One hit breaks the picking up. The actual mechanic is pretty precise, which is why you rarely if ever see people activating ground icons in a fight any more; the "duty action" to activate them in S6N replaces that. It's not a mechanic you can easily just make difficult; if you just make it so you wipe if you don't pick up so many coins, most people as the encounter is now will see no real increase in challenge. If you make his aoes hurt more, people won't see any challenge because they are still easy to dodge.

You'd have to do stuff like increase the damage from the attack, as well as speed of daigoro and make it much harder to pick up coins. But there's some pretty hard limits on how well players can dodge or act in a time limit, which is why the QTES have generous timeframes. It's not really easy to increase difficulty without making it very pass/fail or "do a mechanic perfectly or wipe." And people keep saying Byakko ex, Susano EX, Lakshimi EX, and Shin normal are easy, and they are about as hard as you could make any real encounter that isn't savage in this game. I think people don't get that its very easy to make stuff too hard for players.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Most people don't ignore Yojimbo's coin mechanics, and he only picks up one or two coins. Now how do you balance that for a challenge?

A lot of the "make it hard" people have no idea how to actually make things harder. With yojimbo, there's only so many coins four players can pick up at a time, and they are unable to do anything while doing so. One hit breaks the picking up. The actual mechanic is pretty precise, which is why you rarely if ever see people activating ground icons in a fight any more; the "duty action" to activate them in S6N replaces that.

You missed my point. People only bother with the coin mechanic because it speeds up the fight. If you could ignore it and he just immediately smacks the party after say, fifteen seconds. No one will ever touch it again.

Now you're being obtuse. Time and again have I cited The Aery, Vault, Stone Vigil, Amdapor Keep and others as example. They have already done better in the past. In fact, simply scaling the dungeons closer to our actual ilvls when they release would at least be something.

[Riardon]

Yes the game became way too easy. It's not a dev fault though. People are just horribly lazy players. Most people want everything with 1 click without any effort. Most people don't even bother to read their skills. Devs just want to appeal to the masses to gain subscriptions. We had challenging dungeons but everyone hated them because they required a bit more effort. We had challenging story trials as well. People cried in forums that it's too hard. So the Devs went ok whatever here is your faceroll 1 click win.