please stop make the game easier.

[Kazgrel]

They should add a new difficulty, beyond savage...call it Ultimate or something.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I'm not disagreeing that the game isn't easy, because it's gotten a lot easier imo since ARR, when you actually had to use CC, pick up packs carefully or avoid pats.

I'm sorry, but that was never the case... Or rather : If it was, it didn't change at all. I started the game back then, right after the game launched, and dungeons were never hard... You didn't have to use CC, you could... and you still can. You just don't see people doing that because they don't care so much, since everyone knows how to do the mechanics... For example, in Fractal Continuum HM, there are chimeras that, as usual, do their thing, and you can stun them... But why would you, when everyone is used to avoiding anyway ? And stun was basically the only CC you used... Except for those adds and T7 that needed to be slowed down, which really is lacking, but that's raid content, and we got other challenges instead... But the stunlock that you needed to do as a PLD in T5 or Levi EX was never fun nor hard. It was just boring.

As for packs and so on... Well, yeah. Because there weren't walls. So you had the impression you had to choose carefully what to pull and what not... But I assure you, if you broke down all those walls from new dungeons and made it possible to run from boss to boss... Well, you wouldn't. Why ? Because the packs would destroy you x) Some healers can't even take hell's lid packs from wall to wall, so why would you even try pulling more ? With most healers I meet in Expert, I already pick up packs carefully !

You're nostalgic, like so many others, that's all. And there's nothing wrong with it, but you can't pretend ARR was harder...

[ManuelBravo]

I'm not going to argue stats with you, go back and play any RPG from the Nintendo era to now and you will find that the higher the stats you have the easier things get, despite mobs getting harder and higher stats themselves.

I'm not disagreeing that the game isn't easy, because it's gotten a lot easier imo since ARR, when you actually had to use CC, pick up packs carefully or avoid pats. But not everyone have been around to experience all of these things. As I said take any game, the whole concept of something getting easier is repetition, for example i'm horrible at writing, but if I wanted to do so, I could take classes on writing and get better but I have no desire. Same thing applies to the game or any game, if you get used to the mechanics and see them enough you won't find it hard anymore. I will agree that Vault was one of the highlights of healing in HW but only because it was tight and people really had to be on their toes.

Well trying things over and over is considered learning and experience. It is called putting the hard work. SE even went as far as making level up potions which some of us predicted would affect a players experience over all in the game. Seriously though people have gotten use to cheats and cash stores that they lost sight of one main thing; games are meant to be challanging. Nerfing and nerfing only ruins the game and the only real reason games get nerfed is because companies are there to make money. Majority that complains has leverage simple as that. What I find it even more ironic is that even though the game is constantly being nerfed people are impatient and still think is too hard. I don't know what is worse, SE ruining the game by nerfing content so much, or players who do to the nerfs are only a hindrance than help being they stopped trying too soon.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm not going to argue stats with you, go back and play any RPG from the Nintendo era to now and you will find that the higher the stats you have the easier things get, despite mobs getting harder and higher stats themselves.

I'm not disagreeing that the game isn't easy, because it's gotten a lot easier imo since ARR, when you actually had to use CC, pick up packs carefully or avoid pats. But not everyone have been around to experience all of these things. As I said take any game, the whole concept of something getting easier is repetition, for example i'm horrible at writing, but if I wanted to do so, I could take classes on writing and get better but I have no desire. Same thing applies to the game or any game, if you get used to the mechanics and see them enough you won't find it hard anymore. I will agree that Vault was one of the highlights of healing in HW but only because it was tight and people really had to be on their toes.

That wasn't my argument though. You claimed the game has only gotten easier because of our stats, when that simply isn't the case. Yes, stats play a factor but things simply don't hurt anywhere near how they used to. This is specifically due to tuning. Even several ilvls above Titan Hard, he still hit decently harder than most Primals since late Heavensward. On the Extreme side of things, compare Sephirot and Sophia. Even at minimum ilvl, Sephirot hits significantly harder than Sophia yet he came before her.

And therein lies my point. We aren't progressing above the difficulty, it's simply been scaled down. There are, of course, exceptions. Unfortunately, they are few and far in between.

[Shouko]

snip

[*] Your opinion and that's fine but others are going to disagree.
[*] Stuns weren't the only thing used, there's sleep and pushbacks, heavy, others that I can't remember off hand.
[*] They still had walls back then, just less of them, even in Satasha the first dungeon you do, you had to kill the trash to get
the key to open up doors. You had to more weary because you couldn't take on as many mobs and in fact you were absolutely needing to use CC if you caught more mobs than intended.
[*] Again your opinion on Levi not being fun or hard, people today still have trouble with it with already knowing the fight, if you don't think so fine but don't claim it's a fact.
[*] You wouldn't try to pull packs from end to end back then let alone now, this doesn't need to be said, nobody is that stupid, this isn't Leeroy Jenkins FFXIV version.
[*] Not nostalgia, I have no wish to return or even found the gameplay that much better, other than CC and slower paced fights. I do however have nostalgia for the human interaction of ARR, when people actually spoke to each other and not just a hi at the start of a dungeon or tyfp at the end. People lack socialization and people often forget that socialization is a major part of a MMO, guess where I see the most interaction of late? Eureka, funny how that is. Sure it will slowly die and then the next part will come out, etc but for now people are engaging in conversation again something this game has severly lacked since ARR.

[Sylvina]

Someone please explain to me why hitting harder is a better example of difficulty than y'know MECHANICS.

[ManuelBravo]

Someone please explain to me why hitting harder is a better example of difficulty than y'know MECHANICS.

Would depend on content. Some mechanics can be by passed by pure DMG if people are over geared. However lets face it most people are more muscle than brain now a days >.> and expect people to carry them when they mess up. Guarantee you if they implemented EXP penalties with just a % deduction reduced by raise people would follow mechanics.

[ko_]

I don't think things should hit harder when people complain abotu one shots. I think there needs to be more one shots but I sit alone on that one. Less mechs and more one shots please. But on topic, I will say it's "easy" to us as gamers.. but give someone a PS4 controller and tell them to play fi they never played a game before. They will NOT understand anything this game tells you. I think people who think it's too easy are forgetting we are gamers and are used to things being thrown at us.

[LineageRazor]

on the other hand as wide as the audience may be it does a real bad job at keeping them interested... and I think the lack of difficulty is likely a part of that.

Lack of difficulty for whom? Keep whom interested?

Seeing folks complain about the ease of endgame content that can, and does, stymie 90% of the playerbase, is as common as breathing on these forums. Choose any Ex or Savage fight - ANY, old or new - and I guarantee there were plenty of folks to consider it difficult, often insurmountably so, at the time it was released. I remember folks in a thread being incredulous to hear that there were STILL folks who could not skip Soar on Zurvan toward the end of Heavensward - but it was even worse that that; not just some folks, but MOST folks couldn't do so, even in farm parties. Skilled endgame players have VERY poor conception of the actual skill levels of the majority of players in this game, and tend to assume that most are at least near their level. This is absolutely not the case.

For SE, the sweet spot for endgame content is when the most players possible find the content to be difficult, but not impossible. That level of difficulty is, naturally, going to be incredibly low for players at the top of the curve; folks who can devote three or more nights of practice to the game per week, never have any trouble capping tomestones each week, spend time researching stat weights and optimal DPS rotations and can execute them with near-spot-on regularity, and so on and so forth. Folks that meet those criteria are an extremely small proportion of the game's population, so it's not a big surprise that SE isn't going to tune a lot of content to favor them.

[Sylvina]

I don't think things should hit harder when people complain abotu one shots. I think there needs to be more one shots but I sit alone on that one. Less mechs and more one shots please. But on topic, I will say it's "easy" to us as gamers.. but give someone a PS4 controller and tell them to play fi they never played a game before. They will NOT understand anything this game tells you. I think people who think it's too easy are forgetting we are gamers and are used to things being thrown at us.

Mechanics which can one shot are ok, unavoidable one shots are the thing people learn is bad in game design 101 or even in a more basic class than that.