please stop make the game easier.

[Shouko]

That's not hard, that's tedious. Also, if you have to create difficulty for yourself by playing content in a way it wasn't meant to be played, the game is too easy. Endgame content should not be the only rewarding content.

Tedious can be hard, and hard can be tedious, they're not exclusive.

A lot of people find stuff in this game challenging outside of Eureka solo, my point wasn't that someone should try that unless looking for an extreme hardcore challenge, something akin to the ironman events that people do, no there's no reward for doing so other than knowing you did something challenging/tedious solo.

Just because some people find something too easy doesn't mean that others find it as easy, some people are just better at adapting to the situation than others, not everyone is a quick thinker. I will agree that the content has gotten easier over the years but that's because our stats rise, our hp/mp get higher, we have more skills to work with CC isn't a thing as much anymore, etc. Hence why Classic WoW came back, you had to use your abilities to the fullest in order to survive, on the other hand the raids weren't much beyond simple mechanics. It's like Dark Souls, it gets far easier once you remember where most things are, how to avoid them and get stuff early. The hard part is the first run through.

Endgame should be the most rewarding, not the only though, you're correct on that.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Just because some people find something too easy doesn't mean that others find it as easy, some people are just better at adapting to the situation than others, not everyone is a quick thinker. I will agree that the content has gotten easier over the years but that's because our stats rise, our hp/mp get higher, we have more skills to work with CC isn't a thing as much anymore, etc. Hence why Classic WoW came back, you had to use your abilities to the fullest in order to survive, on the other hand the raids weren't much beyond simple mechanics. It's like Dark Souls, it gets far easier once you remember where most things are, how to avoid them and get stuff early. The hard part is the first run through.

Stats have little to do with the lackluster difficulty we have seen. Things simply aren't tuned to remotely our level. Current Expert dungeons are i310, which was the entry level when Stormblood released. Unless you just got to 4.2 now, you'll out gear both dungeons long before they even release. The devs outright said The Vault was "too hard" yet it's among the few dungeons which actually required some thought and healing awareness. Dark Souls, for comparison sake, has a proper difficult curve hence why it feels better as you level. FFXIV feels easy, and just continues to become easier.

[Shouko]

Snip

I'm not going to argue stats with you, go back and play any RPG from the Nintendo era to now and you will find that the higher the stats you have the easier things get, despite mobs getting harder and higher stats themselves.

I'm not disagreeing that the game isn't easy, because it's gotten a lot easier imo since ARR, when you actually had to use CC, pick up packs carefully or avoid pats. But not everyone have been around to experience all of these things. As I said take any game, the whole concept of something getting easier is repetition, for example i'm horrible at writing, but if I wanted to do so, I could take classes on writing and get better but I have no desire. Same thing applies to the game or any game, if you get used to the mechanics and see them enough you won't find it hard anymore. I will agree that Vault was one of the highlights of healing in HW but only because it was tight and people really had to be on their toes.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I'm not disagreeing that the game isn't easy, because it's gotten a lot easier imo since ARR, when you actually had to use CC, pick up packs carefully or avoid pats.

I'm sorry, but that was never the case... Or rather : If it was, it didn't change at all. I started the game back then, right after the game launched, and dungeons were never hard... You didn't have to use CC, you could... and you still can. You just don't see people doing that because they don't care so much, since everyone knows how to do the mechanics... For example, in Fractal Continuum HM, there are chimeras that, as usual, do their thing, and you can stun them... But why would you, when everyone is used to avoiding anyway ? And stun was basically the only CC you used... Except for those adds and T7 that needed to be slowed down, which really is lacking, but that's raid content, and we got other challenges instead... But the stunlock that you needed to do as a PLD in T5 or Levi EX was never fun nor hard. It was just boring.

As for packs and so on... Well, yeah. Because there weren't walls. So you had the impression you had to choose carefully what to pull and what not... But I assure you, if you broke down all those walls from new dungeons and made it possible to run from boss to boss... Well, you wouldn't. Why ? Because the packs would destroy you x) Some healers can't even take hell's lid packs from wall to wall, so why would you even try pulling more ? With most healers I meet in Expert, I already pick up packs carefully !

You're nostalgic, like so many others, that's all. And there's nothing wrong with it, but you can't pretend ARR was harder...

[Shouko]

snip

[*] Your opinion and that's fine but others are going to disagree.
[*] Stuns weren't the only thing used, there's sleep and pushbacks, heavy, others that I can't remember off hand.
[*] They still had walls back then, just less of them, even in Satasha the first dungeon you do, you had to kill the trash to get
the key to open up doors. You had to more weary because you couldn't take on as many mobs and in fact you were absolutely needing to use CC if you caught more mobs than intended.
[*] Again your opinion on Levi not being fun or hard, people today still have trouble with it with already knowing the fight, if you don't think so fine but don't claim it's a fact.
[*] You wouldn't try to pull packs from end to end back then let alone now, this doesn't need to be said, nobody is that stupid, this isn't Leeroy Jenkins FFXIV version.
[*] Not nostalgia, I have no wish to return or even found the gameplay that much better, other than CC and slower paced fights. I do however have nostalgia for the human interaction of ARR, when people actually spoke to each other and not just a hi at the start of a dungeon or tyfp at the end. People lack socialization and people often forget that socialization is a major part of a MMO, guess where I see the most interaction of late? Eureka, funny how that is. Sure it will slowly die and then the next part will come out, etc but for now people are engaging in conversation again something this game has severly lacked since ARR.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

[*] Your opinion and that's fine but others are going to disagree.

Non-argument, since... well, "no u".

[*] Stuns weren't the only thing used, there's sleep and pushbacks, heavy, others that I can't remember off hand.

Sure. Weren't of any use, though. Sleep wasn't used on anything, or went of because some DPS would eventually hit the sleeping one, and heavy was only used during T7. Pushbacks... were always hated by the tanks, so yeah. They were more of an hindrance than anything.

[*] They still had walls back then, just less of them, even in Satasha the first dungeon you do, you had to kill the trash to get
the key to open up doors. You had to more weary because you couldn't take on as many mobs and in fact you were absolutely needing to use CC if you caught more mobs than intended.

Nobody would pull more than intended, and even if you got one too many pack of mobs... You could already deal with it using proper mitigation. CC wasn't of any use, then again.

[*] Again your opinion on Levi not being fun or hard, people today still have trouble with it with already knowing the fight, if you don't think so fine but don't claim it's a fact.

My point wasn't "Levi was bad", my point was "stunlocking Levi was boring". Remember this wonderful add that you had to stunlock or the whole party would just get panicked and jump off the platform. Yeah, I was that PLD that got you through it, as so many others, but that was boring as hell.

[*] You wouldn't try to pull packs from end to end back then let alone now, this doesn't need to be said, nobody is that stupid, this isn't Leeroy Jenkins FFXIV version.

Aw. So you don't actually need to be careful since it's obvious ? Well, then, why did you bother mentioning it in your previous post ? You're just hurting your message...

[*] Not nostalgia, I have no wish to return or even found the gameplay that much better, other than CC and slower paced fights. I do however have nostalgia for the human interaction of ARR, when people actually spoke to each other and not just a hi at the start of a dungeon or tyfp at the end. People lack socialization and people often forget that socialization is a major part of a MMO, guess where I see the most interaction of late? Eureka, funny how that is. Sure it will slowly die and then the next part will come out, etc but for now people are engaging in conversation again something this game has severly lacked since ARR.

And... Why is it a bad thing the social part went into Eureka ? First of all, you can socialize in dungeon, I do it often, making jokes or whatever and sure, it isn't always effective, but one in three dungeons is rather socially fun, and... well, that's great, if people are social in Eureka. So... Why do you complain, in the end ?

[Shouko]

....

Aw. So you don't actually need to be careful since it's obvious ? Well, then, why did you bother mentioning it in your previous post ? You're just hurting your message...

I noticed you forgot to mention how I was talking about walls vs packs and that you were incorrect about walls not being there. Yes you still had to be careful on how many mobs you pulled and where you were, compared to today where you just grab as many as you can possibly can before hitting a wall and then just AOE them down, along with the wall.

And... Why is it a bad thing the social part went into Eureka ? First of all, you can socialize in dungeon, I do it often, making jokes or whatever and sure, it isn't always effective, but one in three dungeons is rather socially fun, and... well, that's great, if people are social in Eureka. So... Why do you complain, in the end ?

So you just contradicted yourself you claimed I said socialization in Eureka was bad, but then you proceed to acknowledge that I said it was good..so which is it, did I say it was bad or did I say it was good?

Ok good for you but it still doesn't counter people i've heard in game, various places around the net, etc saying differently, not to mention my own experiences. Just today ran a dungeon, tried to make some simple conversation, was flat out met with silence. Now obviously I have no way to prove my point but neither do you, so let's just not go there.

In the end you can say that ARR wasn't harder but in the end I can say that SB is easier, neither of us are right but neither of us are wrong, both had different experiences I suppose and that's what really counts.

[ManuelBravo]

I'm not going to argue stats with you, go back and play any RPG from the Nintendo era to now and you will find that the higher the stats you have the easier things get, despite mobs getting harder and higher stats themselves.

I'm not disagreeing that the game isn't easy, because it's gotten a lot easier imo since ARR, when you actually had to use CC, pick up packs carefully or avoid pats. But not everyone have been around to experience all of these things. As I said take any game, the whole concept of something getting easier is repetition, for example i'm horrible at writing, but if I wanted to do so, I could take classes on writing and get better but I have no desire. Same thing applies to the game or any game, if you get used to the mechanics and see them enough you won't find it hard anymore. I will agree that Vault was one of the highlights of healing in HW but only because it was tight and people really had to be on their toes.

Well trying things over and over is considered learning and experience. It is called putting the hard work. SE even went as far as making level up potions which some of us predicted would affect a players experience over all in the game. Seriously though people have gotten use to cheats and cash stores that they lost sight of one main thing; games are meant to be challanging. Nerfing and nerfing only ruins the game and the only real reason games get nerfed is because companies are there to make money. Majority that complains has leverage simple as that. What I find it even more ironic is that even though the game is constantly being nerfed people are impatient and still think is too hard. I don't know what is worse, SE ruining the game by nerfing content so much, or players who do to the nerfs are only a hindrance than help being they stopped trying too soon.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm not going to argue stats with you, go back and play any RPG from the Nintendo era to now and you will find that the higher the stats you have the easier things get, despite mobs getting harder and higher stats themselves.

I'm not disagreeing that the game isn't easy, because it's gotten a lot easier imo since ARR, when you actually had to use CC, pick up packs carefully or avoid pats. But not everyone have been around to experience all of these things. As I said take any game, the whole concept of something getting easier is repetition, for example i'm horrible at writing, but if I wanted to do so, I could take classes on writing and get better but I have no desire. Same thing applies to the game or any game, if you get used to the mechanics and see them enough you won't find it hard anymore. I will agree that Vault was one of the highlights of healing in HW but only because it was tight and people really had to be on their toes.

That wasn't my argument though. You claimed the game has only gotten easier because of our stats, when that simply isn't the case. Yes, stats play a factor but things simply don't hurt anywhere near how they used to. This is specifically due to tuning. Even several ilvls above Titan Hard, he still hit decently harder than most Primals since late Heavensward. On the Extreme side of things, compare Sephirot and Sophia. Even at minimum ilvl, Sephirot hits significantly harder than Sophia yet he came before her.

And therein lies my point. We aren't progressing above the difficulty, it's simply been scaled down. There are, of course, exceptions. Unfortunately, they are few and far in between.