please stop make the game easier.

[RiyahArp]

Now you're being obtuse. Time and again have I cited The Aery, Vault, Stone Vigil, Amdapor Keep and others as example.

You already have them in game, and they haven't really taught people anything. And tbh we had dungeons with even more mechanics after, like Neverreap, Baeslar's wall, etc. It's not like there are virtually no mechanically intensive dungeons in this game.

And some of those aren't even difficult save for certain things. Qarn only is hard because there is no link in a player's mind between "get doom status" and "step on a plate to clear it." Vault was hard mostly because of one boss who sped mechanics up much faster than players were used to; its not hard at all except when he executes all his mechanics within a couple seconds of each other midway through the fight. They aren't really going to change anything if players have that level of difficulty at expert; players will adapt because it's just a random spike in difficulty on a certain boss or an obtuse mechanic.

Yes the game became way too easy. It's not a dev fault though. People are just horribly lazy players. Most people want everything with 1 click without any effort. Most people don't even bother to read their skills. Devs just want to appeal to the masses to gain subscriptions. We had challenging dungeons but everyone hated them because they required a bit more effort. We had challenging story trials as well. People cried in forums that it's too hard. So the Devs went ok whatever here is your faceroll 1 click win.

You've seen how people react to hard content with ex trials and savage; why on earth do people want the rest of the game to swing in that direction? People can't always do savage with their friends due to difficulty, and have the hardest time finding people to do content with in statics or in pugs. Can you imagine that trickling down to story and expert?

[DreadRabbit]

Snip

Fair enough, but OP seemed to be aiming at older content with their statement (unless I understood wrong, which I might have). Which just seems silly: of course older content is easier to them, because they're seasoned and already did it.

Now for what you and a few others seem to be honing in on (future content): the point a lot of folks are trying to get across is that the folks on this forum do scale towards the higher end of skill level and have been playing for years, so really they aren't a good judge for what average is. In the examples you gave you I saw quite a few players who claimed to be having a hard time with all of those dungeons at launch because they were trying to play like they were overgeared and couldn't (whereas you saw the opposite). People are still having trouble with the very dungeons you listed. Which boils down again to personal skill level. Jump potions are also still a thing now so you have brand new players that are completely unfamiliar with how mechanics are typically handled in this game challenging these areas. Unfortunately, SE has to keep that in mind now when designing fights. I don't personally agree with it, but that's the choice they made.

You may see 15-20k in damage and think "no one's threatened by that," but to someone who doesn't know the game as well there's a big chance they're going to either overcompensate (believing something even bigger is coming) or panic. Either one will affect the entire run. If people that have supposedly beaten what's available in this game are still making mistakes in ARR level dungeons, primals, and other content, then no it isn't braindead content that anyone and everyone can faceroll.

[Dualgunner]

Most people don't ignore Yojimbo's coin mechanics, and he only picks up one or two coins. Now how do you balance that for a challenge?

A lot of the "make it hard" people have no idea how to actually make things harder. With yojimbo, there's only so many coins four players can pick up at a time, and they are unable to do anything while doing so. One hit breaks the picking up. The actual mechanic is pretty precise

The problem is that you can literally ignore every coin, and survive with a pitiful amount of damage. Also no, the mechanic isn't precise at all; yes, getting hit by something interrupts your progress, but there's only one source of damage possible at that time, and it's slow to start becoming an issue.

To answer "That's why there aren't any activatable icons", remember Rabanastre came *after* V2S. EDIT: In specific, the dark circles mechanic, where the arena is covered with dark circles that all need to be clicked on.

[RiyahArp]

Nothing attacks you at all in rab, you just have a bleeding debuff. Its easier to do it than yojimbo, actually. You wiped on it because people thought they should stand in the circles, not click them. And as players do yojimbo now, they don't ignore coins anyways because they can't damage the boss while coins are out. So in practice, most players don't fail the mechanic at all. And when I do that dungeon, people always dodge his stuff and do him mechanically fine. I don't know why people complain about the coins, its a mechanic similar more to Greg's frogs than anything.

[Dualgunner]

Nothing attacks you at all in rab, you just have a bleeding debuff. Its easier to do it than yojimbo, actually.

And yet it stands as direct evidence against your claim that the devs no longer use this mechanic type because of duty actions.

You wiped on it because people thought they should stand in the circles, not click them.

You wipe in Rabanastre at every fight for all sorts of reasons. Though to be fair, that fight isn't clear about many of its mechanics.

And as players do yojimbo now, they don't ignore coins anyways because they can't damage the boss while coins are out. So in practice, most players don't fail the mechanic at all.

The issue, again, is that even when the mechanic is failed, the whole party survives--and not only survives, but survives relatively unscathed.

I don't know why people complain about the coins, its a mechanic similar more to Greg's frogs than anything.

Maybe if you listened to people's actual arguments, instead of attacking what you wish they'd have said, you'd know the complaint. Yay, the mechanic is easy to not fail! So are lots of mechanics in the game. But this mechanic, again like lots of mechanics in the game, doesn't punish you for failing. And again, as said earlier, failing in this mechanic would mean not picking up a single coin, or missing more coins than not.

[KeyboardFacerollname]

I agree with the OP.

Please stop.

Make the game easier.

[Zojha]

[...]-and not only survives, but survives relatively unscathed.

FFXIV woes.

Where "taking out half of everyone's HP" equals "relatively unscathed", "no punishment" and "a pitiful amount of damage". Where taking everyone to 1 HP to follow up with a raid-wide AoE is an easy normal mode mechanic. And that's not even a punishment for failure, it just happens.

Poor enemies sure don't have it easy 'round these parts.

[Dualgunner]

FFXIV woes.

Where "taking out half of everyone's HP" equals "relatively unscathed", "no punishment" and "a pitiful amount of damage". Where taking everyone to 1 HP to follow up with a raid-wide AoE is an easy normal mode mechanic. And that's not even a punishment for failure, it just happens.

Poor enemies sure don't have it easy 'round these parts.

When one to two GCDs of healing top everyone up, yeah it's relatively unscathing.

[Kamatsu]

I think the problem with this is that most people don't realize that eventually everyone will increase in skill.

As much as people want to believe that 'games are made to have fun', there is a such thing as 'too easy' even for the most casual player. Most often they don't even realize it. Because they're casual. They don't have any concept of gleaning enjoyment from challenge. Most people don't and that's why they ask for nerfs in the first place.

Actually, as has been found out in other games - if you make the game harder people don't 'get better', they leave the game and go play something else. Why? Simple - because unlike what you seem to believe, not everyone finds challenging/hard content fun or enjoyable, not everyone wants to have to stress and think when playing games... they just want to unwind from hard day/week of work and just play games for fun.

I always find myself sadly amused by people like you, who seem to think your enjoyment is the "correct" way and that other's just haven't found it. Here's the truth - people have found their fun and do what they enjoy doing, and no matter how much you say "but but challenges and hard stuff is fun!", they will not find challenges and hard content fun. It's not that 'they don't realize it's fun!", it's that they do not find hard/challenging content fun.

And sorry, but games ARE meant for fun and enjoyment. Just what people find fun and enjoying differ's from person to person. Some people find it fun playing hard/challenging things, some find it fun just doing easy stuff that doesn't involve anything hard/challenging. neither is right or wrong, just different.
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The problem for game dev's is how do you balance this? How do you have a balance of content that can keep the most players happy? Make everything too easy and those who like hard/challenging content will complain. Whereas if you make it too hard the players who like easy content will leave the game for other games that offer easy gameplay.

Moreover, if they try and offer a more balanced level where some/majority of content is easy while keeping some content hard(er)... they will still get complaints from those who like hard/challenging content as well as from those who want/like easy content. And this is where FFXIV is - the vast majority of the content is easy, with some harder content (EX's, Savage, etc)... and has complaints from both sides.

[Yenyen]

I like to think for the most part rather than tending to the player base already here for a while (not myself), they try to let newer players squeeze into these raiding scenes and all this jazz easier.

My last game required 30 people to attend a raid once per week, 1 person out of the 30 could easily kill the entire raid by failing, 5 tanks tank swapping, 5 healers having to coordinate there cleanse/ensuna for a bomb that does raid wide damage, each party of say 6 having 1 bomb each.

If you were a newbie or at the very least not overly geared from the previous content no 1 would invite you, I'm referring to Vergo if that rings any bells with anybody.

I guess I'm not helping but I have a suggestion, if you want a challenge then try miniIlvl the "easy" things, I had fun with Twintania though I got dumpster'd for a while before my first clear xD