Confessions of a Toxic Elitist

[KaivaC]

Here, let me pull your attention to another post as well:

There's something to this but there's also other factors you may not be considering: How many players are actually posting logs of Sigma Normal? If people are posting FFLogs of a normal version of a raid, what is the likelihood that they're also they ones obsessed with high percentiles and thus you're comparing yourself against the average of 10% of the population which is intrinsically different than the average of 100% of the population? (If your at 9th percentile of the top 90th percentile then you're actually 91st percentile which is WAY above the typical average). Lastly, unless you're running with the same people as always whom are uploading these logs, how certain are you off their ACT settings to accurately portray your performance?

Just more food for thought.

No, I'm definitely stuck in the PUG life. I rarely know in advance if a clear is going to get uploaded or not and these days, I'm wary of asking random players if they are parsing because I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to judge them. I thought that ACT was pretty accurate, but I've not used the program myself because of PS4. The recent ones from normal, however, I do trust, hence my issue with myself.

That's like telling someone they deserve the flu. Your body responds in a way that is unproportional to a situation and is considered an actual illness. It's ok to feel a bit miffed about things, it's ok to take the time to reflect, it means you care, but if you're using "depression" in the way I do when I talk about it, no one deserves it. Least of all over a game.

I...don't really know how to respond. I didn't feel like it was wrong, and we can't exactly deny that I haven't been something of a jerk on the forums. I dunno, maybe I'm just wired a bit oddly, but I didn't necessarily find anything wrong with the post in question. I mean, yeah, it hurt a bit, but it's still something to consider.

Kaiva's the one despairing over what FFLogs has done to them. All the fun they had in game somehow just gets ignored because of numbers on a website. Some person literally told them to be quiet over how they ranked compared to other players. Which is toxic?

Which is fine, because I put myself in this situation in the first place and didn't have the means to back it up when I finally saw how exposed I really was. Yes, my numbers heavily bother me to the point that this thread started. But I put myself in this situation because of what I have posted in the past. 'Gotta walk the walk and talk the talk', is how the saying goes. I'm owning up to my own ignorance and now I'm working on taking that walk.

Pretty sure this is one of the reasons why Yoshi P. doesn't like FFlogs. As for my own experience I've looked myself up out of curiosity but I could care less about any of the logs or numbers themselves other people uploaded. The game is supposed to be fun. If you're not having fun you're doing it wrong. Perhaps take a step back and evaluate if you really want to be slaving over some logs if they make you miserable?

This is hard to answer because, like I stated above, I sort of put myself in this situation. In a sense, I kinda want to be better than 9th percentile. And I know there are probably even more players who ran into this same situation, so I just want to see what their experiences were like when they got hit with how their own performance matched up.

[RiyahArp]

Which is fine, because I put myself in this situation in the first place and didn't have the means to back it up when I finally saw how exposed I really was. Yes, my numbers heavily bother me to the point that this thread started. But I put myself in this situation because of what I have posted in the past. 'Gotta walk the walk and talk the talk', is how the saying goes. I'm owning up to my own ignorance and now I'm working on taking that walk.

No, it's not fine. Its not fine for that to happen. It's not fine for people to tell others to shut up despite actually clearing and doing their best on the hardest content of the game. It's not fine to get depressed over something because you feel like you need to be professional just to even have a seat at the table.

Elitism brings the worst part of the real world into games, where it shouldn't belong. Chasing status, despair at your position compared to others, viewing leisure as work, and often deadly serious work at that; its not healthy.

[Estelle9lives]

I love how some people are so quick to label FFlogs/Parsing "toxic" and "elitist" when those are legitimate tools that can be used as a great metric for personal improvement. It's like people can't take a second to look in the mirror before throwing out these labels, the epitome being someone saying a person deserves to be depressed. Really?

On topic, Kaiva, this happened with me when I started paying this game a little over 3 years ago, I started as a WAR, thought I was on a roll since dungeons were so easy and Ramuh Ex made me realize I absolutely sucked as a tank. I simply could not keep track of all the debuffs, swaps and mechanics I had to do, this is not even accounting I had no idea about DPS numbers back then. I believe I improved a lot over the last few years, and have been enjoying raiding ever since FCoB.

Regarding the numbers... Your logs aren't good, but they are also from a small sample pool (1 log for each fight) and like others have said, remember that when it comes to Savage it will compare you against people who are most likely raiders as well. I took the liberty of looking up your gear on the lodestone and I have noticed that you have a lot of slots that aren't melded, and several of your pieces are sub-optimal for SMN (Spell Speed for SMN = bad), both factors which have a heavy impact on your DPS. Outside from that you'd need to take a look on improving your active time (very low on that o5s kill) and your overall opener/rotation.

Other factors to consider are:
1 - You picked one of the most complex DPS classes to learn
2 - You haven't been playing SMN for long
3 - SMN may just not be for you, it happens (happened to me as well, I'm stil a mediocre WAR after all these years lmao)

So yeah, the veeeery first thing you need to do is make sure your gear is at the very least fully melded with materia VI. You can't have a baseline of where you're at with your current gear. Next thing that would be good is either looking up stuff about SMN online/on the DPS forums/on the Balance Discord, or finding someone who is good at SMN to coach you. We are on the same server, so feel free to add me if you ever need advice/help on current savage fights (I have cleared the tier) or advice regarding healer jobs (my main area). I also play stuff like DRG/PLD at an acceptable level.

[Zojha]

I love how some people are so quick to label FFlogs/Parsing "toxic" and "elitist" when those are legitimate tools that can be used as a great metric for personal improvement.

I'd like to note however that random parses are little more than a very, very broad hint.

I personally don't upload any logs and when I look myself up on my "main" (if you can call it that), I can score anywhere between the 99th percentile (lol Void Ark) to the 17th percentile (Cruise Chaser Savage). Other parses are scattered seemingly at random between those extremes.

That's not useful at all, neither for self-improvement nor for simply gauging where I stand. In order to make the parses useful, you first need to create a controlled environment, because a lot of factors beyond skill go into the raw DPS number, especially gear and comp. Well, or you just look at potency per second or something, but I'm not sure if FFlogs has that function anywhere. I couldn't find it at least.

[Estelle9lives]

I'd like to note...

I mostly agree with you, which is why I mentioned in my original post that Kaiva's sample pool is too small and there are gear problems. You can't really measure where you're standing in those conditions. Doing Savage with pugs will always result in more variable results compared to when you're in a static (specially if it's a solid one), but it's perfectly possible to get clean runs even with pugs to get a good metric.

And yes, I have noticed it is relatively easier to score higher percentile on easier content, like the 24 mans or Sigma NM, as there are a lot more casual players doing said content, and sometimes the classic AFK'ers get thrown in those pools too.

[Shurrikhan]

I'd like to note however that random parses are little more than a very, very broad hint.

I personally don't upload any logs and when I look myself up on my "main" (if you can call it that), I can score anywhere between the 99th percentile (lol Void Ark) to the 17th percentile (Cruise Chaser Savage). Other parses are scattered seemingly at random between those extremes.

That's not useful at all, neither for self-improvement nor for simply gauging where I stand. In order to make the parses useful, you first need to create a controlled environment, because a lot of factors beyond skill go into the raw DPS number, especially gear and comp. Well, or you just look at potency per second or something, but I'm not sure if FFlogs has that function anywhere. I couldn't find it at least.

The percentiles are certainly far from useful except in telling you what percentage of parses fell above or below you... which is itself hardly relevant. Heck, it seems a lot of people confuse their, say, 75% parse for their doing 75% of the highest parse for their class on the given encounter rather than merely above 74.9% of other players who've logged their parses.

It's why I've always insisted on, if an official parser were ever to be added, a relative potency metric by default, or at least as an obvious option, such that the effect of gear is at least greatly diminished and the RNG-based swing is omitted.

Once I'm near BiS, the percentiles are nice for signalling how much further yet I can push things, especially if able to influence the composition and encounter strategies, but until then -- and for the most part at any time -- the timelogs have always been my area of focus.

[Bernkastelx]

This is what I call overreacting. Taking a look at your gear you have a lot of spots left open to meld. You have a 70 tank get those free cracked clusters in lvling roulette and meld that gear. That is a dps increase right there. People seem to forget the percentile gets harder to reach the 90% when people are getting better gear which im sure by now more than a couple of people have 375 weapons and bis gear. Unless you are geared as the same with these people your overall dmg is not going to compare. Which is the real reason yoshi p doesn't want to add a parser is because people don't know how to read data and take factors into consideration and only think a number means something. Personally after looking at your gear and the fight that is pretty much a target dummy your dmg could be improved on by simply straightening your rotation out and fully melding your gear. Your dmg isn't as low as you think it is.

[Jellybums]

I kind of get how you feel. It's like moving from a fish tank to a shark tank. You thought you're the biggest until you met bigger fish. Now that doesn't mean you were never big or in your case good at what you do. Of course you are, you did things well. But you've now entered a more competitive space because you gained awareness of it. Please don't let this impact how you see yourself, your talents/your worth as a person negatively. Though you may not be at the top now, you definitely have potential. Where you rank now is temporary. You have the opportunity to go where you want, as high as you want. Go get it. You sound like you have enough gumption for it anyway.

[Gleipni]

OP,i dont want to be mean,but you're kind of a joke,telling that "im an elitist" event hough you never check yourself is just total nonsense,an elitist is someone who check his performance regulary,try to improve,someone who say that people suck and their are the best are dumbass.

So yeah the big thing is,you were never an elitist to start with,cause you do not have an high level of profiencency with your class,you were just someone who was ranting and feeling like an elitist for nothing.

[Dualgunner]

an elitist is someone who check his performance regulary,try to improve,someone who say that people suck and their are the best are dumbass.

Different people have different colloquial definitions of the term "elitist." If we want to go by the strictest definition, an elitist is somebody who believes that the elite should be the leaders of society, so one can be an elitist without being, themselves, elite.

If we carry that to video games, one can be elitist by idolizing elites, without being an elite. This can carry over to trying to emulate those same elites, thinking mimicry without understanding will give them the same proficiency.

Besides all of which, I don't think Kaiva claimed to be an elitist so much as she'd been called an elitist so much she just gave up arguing with it.