New Class idea [Geometrician]

[Ceasaria]

I think you got a good idea with the aetherprobes and some actions, but because you try to copycat the 3 other jobs (as SE did with AST copycat WHM and SCH), the identity of Geometrician is weak or even weird. You need to get rid of your stances and define totally new ones, or just don’t. I will try to expose my changes after for that.

What is bad in your actions & traits ?

- Vector and Cartesian are too strong. Your Axiom II would doing 320 / 410 damages.
- Regen potency total = 1050 ; Natural Logarithm total potency = 1584 (+50% Regen). But the worst is 9 sec of your HoT is better than the 21 sec Regen.
- Same for the AOE HoT Positive Logarithm.
- Total potency of Negative Logarithm is 715. 472 potency in 12 seconds, and then 233 potency for the 18 seconds left. Do you see the problem ? 4 ticks, is superior to Axiom II, in 12 sec, but the 6 other are doing 50% less damages. So, you will need to refresh your DoT every 12 sec. The design of this skill is not good.
- As I said before, the problem is your stances. You have either HoT, either Shield or Buffs. You need to choose. A job which can do anything, it’s not good (I think) even, if you can’t switch stance.
- Not a fan of the elements buffs which can’t stack with cards. Nonsense, or maybe really it’s a copycat ? They are not innovatives.
- 2 Spells of AST is affected by it’s stances : HoT or Shields. The problems, is Geometrician has already powerful HoT independant of your stances. So, why add again an Hot effect with Geometric Thesis ?
- Each stance have access to 2 powerful abilities (even if it’s 120 sec cd): big heal + HoT (again ? but for Antithesis and Synthesis which means 2 manners of heal via HoT for each stance, so no differentiation), Big Shield (I don’t want to calculate the potency, but - - I’am sure Cosecant & Addlo deployment, one minute apart, it’s pretty OP). Maybe I would say Ok, but nope because of the reset of Aetherprob III cooldown or maybe your Secant, Cosecant and Cotangent should share the same recast time.
- Dps part not engaging except for Quake and Aftershock.


What is good ?

- I said it at the beginning, aetherprobes are interesting. You can place them on the fields and do stuffs but then you try to implement WHM & SCH & AST in it. The result is not convincing. Keep one part, or even create something new.
- I don’t like the decreased DoT and HoT, but the opposite would be immediately more interesting (and would correct your problems). Maybe do the same with Quake and After Shoke. Begin with 150 potency, and then increase by 10% for the 2nd, 20% for the 3rd,..., up to 50% for the others.
- Coversine and Haversine are nice but maybe need some tweaks.
- I’am ok with Gaia, Stratification and Aspecification. With that, I think Terrain Aspect Bonuses is what you should keep, but change the different buffs. (3 buffs/support + 3 debuff/damage ?).


Some questions :

- With aetheprobes III, do you place aertherprobes one by one, or it’s the 3 together automatically ? I don’t understand well this part.
- For Geometric Antithesis, when you say “generate a 20% shield”, it’s one time or every X sec as HoT ?
- Have you some instant spells ?


My final thought :

For me, I would remove your 3 stances but keep the Terrain Aspect Bonuses. I would keep the idea of Cosecant and Cotangent (two powerful group AOE) with changes to make them more unique. Change Positive Logarithm to be a kind of Medica, along PL II which is the Medica II. I would do something about the dps with aetherprobes or with terrain aspect bonuses to be more engaging.

[Wayfinder3]

A problem I notice here is your job is falling into the same trap HW Ast fell into and is still climbing out of. One job cannot realistically be a Swiss Army knife and expect to either be too strong or too weak. Ast has been on both sides of this spectrum (remember 10% AoE balance) You job needs to pick a stance regen or shielder, much like Ast needs to do come 5.0. Assume that the devs strip Astro of one of its stances and design 2 possible stance from that. But trying to be all 3 healers in one when one of those 3 healers is already 2 in one sounds absolutely absurd

[Seraphor]

A problem I notice here is your job is falling into the same HW Ast fell into and is still climbing out of. One job cannot realistically be a Swiss Army knife and expect to either be too strong or too weak. Ast has been on both sides of this spectrum (remember 10% AoE balance) You job needs to pick a stance regen or shielder, much like Ast needs to do come 5.0. Assume that the devs strip Astro of one of its stances and design 2 possible stance from that. But trying to be all 3 healers in one when one of those 3 headset is already 2 in one sounds absolutely absurd

Couldn't disagree more about AST. It only works because it can be either HoT or shields.
Because of the dual healer mechanism of full parties, fixing it to either of the stances would make it a 50/50 chance of being utterly useless, not to mention, being able to do either as the situation calls is what makes AST so much fun to play.

If AST was fixed to nocturnal, then SCH/AST would be ineffective as their shields don't stack, in fact the AST shields could overwrite the SCH superior shields and be more detrimental than just having a single SCH.

If AST was fixed to diurnal, then WHM/AST would just be a poorer version of WHM/WHM.

If AST had its priorities shifted more to its card buffs over either of its stances so that it still had something to give in either situation, then it would fail solo.

If any of these were done, then AST/AST would be redundant.

If they made this change to AST in 5.0 you've suggested, then I don't think I'd enjoy playing as ANY healer.


This is why this job needs to be able to cover three different modes, it needs to be able to synergise with any of the other three healers in a two-healer set up.
It could work with just two stances like AST, but then it literally would just be an AST clone.
And I suppose it could be done as a pure-heal healer, with no HoT or Mitigation, but with healing potencies and more instant heals than any of the other healers...


What could potentially be done though, is instead of having 'stances', simply make up these healing philosophies in cooldown skills. So that you can't replace a WHM/SCH, but can still replicate their abilities in certain situations. So that stances could be gone, but keep the Secant/Cosecant/Cotangent abilities.

[Seraphor]

Snip.

You make a good point about the front loaded HoT/DoT’s forcing you to reapply after 12s.
In my effort to make “reapplying HoT/DoT’s” more appealing, I’ve gone too far the other way.
And reversing them to make them start small and grow, would be functionally more interesting, and instead of making the reapplication more appealing, it would make it mandatory to leave them to their set duration. Although the duration would have to be significantly reduced, to no more than 12s or it’d be unreliable.
In that case, there would need to be more focus on direct healing and mitigation, because there would be no benefit to reapplying HoT/DoTs.

I think I would reverse and rejig the Pos/Neg. Logs, but keep Natural Logarithm the same, as it’s a cooldown and therefore cannot be reapplied, and would serve as an emergency heal.
Pos.Log could be 12s, and Pos.Log II could be 9s with higher potencies.


How Aetherprobes would work.
You place your first Aetherprobe down, just like a turret with ground targeting.
10s later you can use the skill again to place down a second Aetherprobe, manually. This gives you a manually placed corridor, with a length you have manually defined.
The third Aetherprobe can then only be place on a circle, of which your set corridor forms the diameter. The ground targeting reticule would snap into place on this circle allowing you to place it anywhere on that circle and form a right triangle, where your initial corridor becomes the hypotenuse.

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/pwc02.jpg
In this diagram, you’d place A and B first to define the corridor, in either order, then your third would be C and form the triangle.

[Seraphor]

How about something like this:

No stances.
1 Aetherprobe creates a 10y radial 80 potency HoT field.
2 Aetherprobes create a corridor with a 20% damage reduction field.
3 Aetherprobes form a triangle with Terrain Aspect Bonus and healing potency increase, and allows you to trigger the detonation abilities.

You can therefore tailor your ‘stance’ by placing the aetherprobes, but it will not be a permanent ‘stance’ as your goal would still be your terrain bonus and/or a detonation.
E.g. If you require the shield over the buffs, then you hold off on your third aetherprobe, or use Retrieve to remove one, etc.
This gives it cost-benefit mechanism, and is centred around a prep ‘rotation’ kinda like a MCH, but more adjustable.

You still have your GCDs and unique HoT or Mitigation abilities, so that if you don’t have the field you need up you have something to make do with until you’ve set it up.

The concept is therefore more based around your environment dictating your skills.
While terrain decides your buffs, your use of that terrain (aetherprobes) decides your ‘stance’, in addition to you creating a new ‘terrain’ (fields) for party members to use.
Ergo, it’s ALL terrain manipulation in one form or another, with no conventional ‘stances’, more fitting of a Geomancer class in a mathematician skin.

Obviously the Terrain Aspect Bonus would require them to go back through all maps and either set a terrain type to that entire map, or actually map out new zones within those maps.
So by holding off until 3 aetherprobes are available, at level 60, this excludes all pre-60 dungeons from that requirement.
Adjust Gaia/Stratification to post-60 too.
This would also mimic AST’s access to Diurnal and Nocturnal at varying levels, with only 1 probe (HoT) being available first, then 2 probes (shield) later.

Overall, this still allows you to 'fill in the gaps' left by your co-healer without clashing, but doesn't mimic AST's stances or add in three stances to juggle.


As for the Vector/Cartesian traits.
Instead of simply increasing Axiom skills by so much, the Vector/Cartesian trait could cause the ticks of Logarithms to proc an Enhanced Axiom/Congruence, kinda like BLM’s Thundercloud, THEN increase potencies by 50%/100%.

Vector: (2 probes)
Causes enemies within the field inflicted by Negative Logarithm to provide a 10% chance to proc ‘Enhanced Axiom’ increasing potency of the next Axiom spell by 50%.
Causes party members within the field inflicted by Positive Logarithm to provide a 5% chance to proc ‘Enhanced Congruence’ increasing potency of the next Congruence spell by 50%.

Cartesian: (3 probes)
Causes enemies within the field inflicted by Negative Logarithm to provide a 6% chance to proc ‘Enhanced Axiom’ increasing potency of the next Axiom spell by 100%.
Causes party members within the field inflicted by Positive Logarithm to provide a 3% chance to proc ‘Enhanced Congruence’ increasing potency of the next Congruence spell by 100%.

Plus…
Triangulation:
Using an ‘Enhanced Axiom’ on a target outside of the field resets the cooldown on Aftershock.
Using an ‘Enhanced Congruence’ on a target outside of the field resets the cooldown on Natural Logarithm.

This provides you with a pseudo combo rotation (e.g. Neg.Log>Enhanced Axiom>Reset Aftershock, or Pos.Log>Enhanced Congruence>Reset Nat.Log) which is no more powerful than the kind of crit/mp-free procs that the other healers get but is reliant on and has different effects based on, you guessed it, position (whether or not targets are in or out of the aetherprobe field)
In any of these cases, if the target moves into or out of the field, then the effect stops.
E.g. if a target within the field has Neg.Log, then moves out of the field, further ticks will not be able to proc Vector/Cartesian.
and if a target outside of the field moves into the field as you're casting Enhanced Axiom, it will not reset the cooldown on Aftershock.

[Wayfinder3]

Astrologian has many problems because of it's ability to fit in the slot of both healers, mainly that it's raw utility in it's cards circumvent the fact that the other healers are more efficient at either healing or shielding. Since there are 3, having the 3 healers balanced around 1 being able to shield and the other being able to regen while one can do both makes sense. However problems will arise unless every healer gets the ability to regen or shield or you're going to see ast as that puzzle piece that fits into every comp, or you'll have every NEW healer nearly replicate AST as far as having a watered down version of whm and sch's core kit. Thing is, they already did this with AST.

this would be like making a physical version of red mage and calling it gunblade job. I would rather shields be nerfed to allow for stacking or adjusted in some way, then to see ast continue to fit in the puzzle piece place that it does right now.

Not to be rude but as both me and Caeseisa noted, your proposal is literally a hybrid of a Hybrid and i don't think making a hybrid of 3 jobs 1 of which is already a hybrid is smart job design. if your healer focused more on the concept of AoE, shields in the same vain of sacred soil or regens like asylum, you'd have a unique job idea. AoE domes based effects that can do either shields or regens but not both allow for more diversity while not running into the issue you mentioned with over lapping shields. Sacred soil and Collective unconsious can stack together. you could also have an AoE that causes buffs in the same vain of ley lines but for the raid.

[Seraphor]

"Astrologian has many problems because of it's ability to fit in the slot of both healers"
AST would have many more problems if it couldn't.
This ability is a strength not a detriment, and is exactly why the current healers are so well balanced.
Can you point out these "problems" to me?

"AoE domes based effects that can do either shields or regens but not both allow for more diversity while not running into the issue you mentioned with over lapping shields. Sacred soil and Collective unconsious can stack together."
But we already have this issue with SCH/SCH or SCH/Noct-AST. This is WHY AST has two stances.

Not to be rude... but I've already conceded that the three-stance idea is flawed and offered alternative suggestions.
Including what you've just mentioned, so...

[Seraphor]

Ok, I’ve sorted out a new build for this.

Settled on ‘Geometrist’ as the title and GEO as the abbreviation.
Re-ordered and releveled some abilities.
Removed the stances entirely, but still kept the multiple-identity in the abilities.

Basically, while WHM is HoT and SCH is mitigation, AST can be both depending on stance, and GEO can be both depending on abilities used.
AST uses its stances as a baseline, then its main focus is on managing card buffs.
GEO’s main focus is on its Aetherprobes, and managing them dictates your “stance” so to speak, while its buffs come later as an afterthought.



Lv. 1 Axiom
Deals 128 potency damage to target. GCD. Costs MP.

Lv. 2 Congruence
Heals for 320 potency, GCD. Costs MP.

Lv. 4 Negative Logarithm
Inflict a DoT that increases over 18s. GCD. Costs MP.
Initial Hit: 2 potency, Subsequent Ticks: 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, Total: 252 potency.

Lv. 10 Positive Logarithm
Bestow an AoE HoT that increases over 12s. GCD. Costs MP.
Initial Hit: 3 potency, Subsequent Ticks: 9, 27, 81, 243, Total: 363 potency.

Lv. 15 Coversine
Splits damage with target by percentage. Duration 6s, cooldown 30s. Costs MP.
Effect ends prematurely if you move.
e.g. if target takes damage equal to 20% of their HP, they only suffer half of that damage (10%) and 3s later you suffer damage equal to 10% of your HP. This is a net gain as a healer will have less HP than a Tank, so less damage will be taken overall. Not much mitigation in terms of net damage really, but when you consider you're basically providing the tank with a 50% shield it can be very potent when used correctly.
Sort of an inverse of AST’s Synastry as mitigation instead of bonus healing.

Lv. 17 Reverse
Revives target to a weakened state. GCD. Costs MP.

-First dungeons begin-

Lv. 20 Natural Logarithm
Bestow a single target HoT that decreases over 15s. Instant, 120s cooldown. Costs MP.
Initial Hit: 729 potency, Subsequent Ticks: 243, 81, 27, 9, 3, Total: 1092 potency.
Similar to Essential Dignity as an emergency heal, but as a front-loaded HoT.

Lv. 25 Negative Logarithm II
Replaces Negative Logarithm.
Inflict a DoT that increases over 12s. GCD. Costs MP.
Initial Hit: 3 potency, Subsequent Ticks: 9, 27, 81, 243, Total: 363 potency.

Lv. 30 Aetherprobe
Place an Aetherprobe in the ground, generating a 10y field that bestows a 40 potency HoT.
The Aetherprobe will last indefinitely unless HP depleted or replaced by another. Can be damaged by AoE’s or targeted by enemies.
30s cooldown. Costs TP.

Lv. 30 Retrieve
Remove the 'oldest' Aetherprobe you placed. Costs TP.
For when you don't want to form a corridor, and just want a series of 10y circles, as your progress down a path/through a dungeon.

Lv. 35 Quake
Deals unaspected damage to a target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 200 for the first enemy, 10% less for the second, 20% less for the third, 30% less for the fourth, 40% less for the fifth, and 50% less for all remaining enemies. GCD. Costs MP.
Proc’s Aftershock, available for 12s.
Yes, basically a weaker Gravity, however it would be available at a lower level than Gravity, have Aftershock to bolster its damage at higher levels, and personally I'd like to see Gravity changed to have its potency scale with targets HP, e.g. 300 potency to all targets at 100% HP, 100 potency to all targets at less than 10% HP, and everything in between like 200 potency if at 50% HP, etc.

Lv. 38 Congruence II
Heals for 640 potency, GCD. Costs MP.

Lv. 40 Positive Logarithm II
Replaces Positive Logarithm.
Bestow an AoE HoT that increases over 9s. GCD. Costs MP.
Initial Hit: 5 potency, Subsequent Ticks: 25, 125, 625, Total: 780 potency.

Lv. 42 Axiom II
Replaces Axiom.
Deals 205 potency damage to target. GCD. Costs MP.

Lv. 48 Haversine
Splits damage target receives with three other party members by percentage. Duration 8s, cooldown 45s. Costs MP.
Effect ends prematurely if you move.
e.g. if target takes damage equal to 20% of their HP, they only suffer half of that damage (10%) and 3s later the three closest party members each suffer damage equal to 5% of their HP. Same effect as far as the tank is concerned, but you're sharing out 75% of the damage across three characters, so depending on HP values you could be taking more damage overall. This is the drawback to sharing it out more evenly, but gives you an additional oGCD to weave.

Lv. 50 Aetherprobe II
Replaces Aetherprobe.
Place up to two Aetherprobes in the ground.
One Aetherprobe maintains the effect of Aetherprobe
Two Aetherbrobes form a 5y width corridor field between the two plus a 5y radius at each end, with a 10% Damage Reduction buff.
20s cooldown. Costs TP.

-ARR cut off-

Lv. 52 Integration
Can only be used when standing within the Aetherprobe field, cooldown 60s. Costs TP.
For 9s any Congruence spells you cast have their MP reduced by 60%

Vector: Level 54 trait.
Enemies in the dual-probe aetheric field are effected by the ‘Vector’ effect, giving each tick of Negative Logarithm a 10% of triggering the Enhanced Axiom effect.
Party members in the field are effected by the ‘Vector’ effect, giving each tick of Positive Logarithm a 5% of triggering the Enhanced Congruence effect.
Enhanced Axiom and Enhanced Congruence cause the next spell of their respective type to deal/heal for 60% more damage/HP.

Lv. 56 Aftershock
Can only be used when proc’ed by Quake. Instant cast. 20s cooldown. Costs MP.
Deals unaspected damage to a target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 100 for the first enemy, 10% less for the second, 20% less for the third, 30% less for the fourth, 40% less for the fifth, and 50% less for all remaining enemies. Also stuns all enemies for 2s.

Lv. 58 Phase Shift
Renders target impervious to any damage that would take target below 1HP for 3 seconds. 180s cooldown. Costs MP.
Effect ends prematurely if you move.

Lv. 60 Aetherprobe III
Replaces Aetherprobe II.
Place up to three Aetherprobes in the ground.
One Aetherprobe maintains the effect of Aetherprobe
Two Aetherbrobes maintains the effect of Aetherprobe II
Three Aetherprobes form a triangular field between them that bestows a 10% Terrain Aspect Bonus to all party members and increases your healing potency by 20%.
10s cooldown. Costs TP.
The third Aetherprobe will always snap into place to form a right triangle, meaning there will be an arc in which the third one can be placed, therefore the placement of the first two Aetherprobes will form the hypotenuse (longest side of the triangle) and determine where the third one can go.

-HW cut off-

Lv. 62 Gaia
Bestow a 10% effect of the current Terrain Aspect Bonus to one target for 10s. 30s cooldown. Costs TP.

Lv. 62 Apeiroga
Detonates all three aetherprobes to deal damage to all enemies in range with a potency that scales with the number of enemies currently within the field.
Base 100 potency, each enemy grants 50 potency to the attack.
Additional unique effects require you to be standing by a certain probe.
120s cooldown. Costs MP. Triggers your Aetherprobe III cooldown.

Lv. 64 Apeirogonal Sine
Replaces Apeiroga when standing within 5y of the Opposite-Hypotenuse angle probe. (probably the second one placed)
Detonating deals the damage of Apeirogon and shields the party for 60% of their max HP.
120s cooldown. Costs MP. Triggers your Aetherprobe III cooldown.

Lv. 66 Apeirogonal Cosine
Replaces Apeiroga when standing within 5y of the Adjacent-Hypotenuse angle probe. (probably the first one placed)
Detonating deals the damage of Apeirogon and bestows a HoT on the party for a total of 80% of their max HP over 18s.
120s cooldown. Costs MP. Triggers your Aetherprobe III cooldown.

Cartesian: Level 66 trait.
Enemies in the triple-probe aetheric field are effected by the ‘Cartesian’ effect, giving each tick of Negative Logarithm a 6% of triggering the Enhanced Axiom effect.
Party members in the field are effected by the ‘Cartesian’ effect, giving each tick of Positive Logarithm a 3% of triggering the Enhanced Congruence effect.
Enhanced Axiom and Enhanced Congruence cause the next spell of their respective type to deal/heal for 100% more damage/HP.

Lv. 68 Apeirogonal Tangent
Replaces Apeiroga when standing within 5y of the Opposite-Adjacent angle probe. (the last probe you placed)
Detonating deals the damage of Apeirogon and heals the party for 75% of their max HP.
120s cooldown. Costs MP. Triggers your Aetherprobe III cooldown.

Lv. 70 Stratification
Tap into a deeper aethercurrent, unlocking a second 5% Terrain Aspect Bonus to utilise in addition to the current one, combining two buffs at once when using either Gaia or Aetherprobe III.
Secondary bonus is entirely random. Effect disappears after 20s or if you move to a different terrain area. 120s cooldown. Costs TP.

-SB cut off-

Lv. 72 Escarpment
Convert the Stratification bonus into the same aspect as the Terrain Aspect Bonus, making it a total 15% effect. 120s cooldown. Costs TP.

Lv. 76 Slide Rule
Warp to an Aetherprobe, defaults to closest and can then be reused to cycle through probes. 3s cooldown. Costs TP.
Basically Aetherial Manipulation using probes instead of party members.

Lv. 80 Faultline
Primes current spot for an Earthquake. 10y ground targeted AoE. Duration 6s. Cooldown 180s. Costs TP.
Any Quake or Aftershock spells you cast on this spot will deal an additional 100 potency base damage and heal any party members in range for 50% of the damage inflicted.



Terrain Aspect Bonuses: Similar to AST’s cards, but based on location so they’re entirely predictable and not under your control.
These can vary by location within dungeons but will never vary within a boss battle arena.
The gauge will display what bonus your current location provides.
The specific buffs are merely ideas, there might be better ideas out there.

Fire: Physical Damage Up
Lighting: Magic Damage Up
Wind: Skill Speed Up
Ice: Spell Speed Up
Water: Healing Up (like Convalescence)
Earth: Damage Received Down (like Bole)

I thought these buffs would be different enough from AST cards that they wouldn’t feel too similar, and in addition they’re a little less versatile with speed and damage buffs being split between damage types.
These ‘pairs’ as such would typically be seen together in the same dungeon, such as one dungeon alternating between Wind and Ice (say Snowcloak if that were to have it)
So Fire/Lightning would be damage up, Wind/Ice would be speed up, and Water/Earth is survivability up, or taking the load off of you the healer.


Job Gauges: Two parts, both of which display at level 60.
Terrain Gauge: Simply an elemental symbol representing the Terrain Aspect Bonus, with a second slot under it for the second bonus via Stratification. The simple form would be two slots side by side, the first showing TAB and the second showing Stratification bonus
Geometry Gauge: Three slots laid out in a right triangle, and at each corner are the SIN, COS and TAN symbols. When you are standing within range of an Aetherprobe, this symbol along with the two sides of the triangle that form that angle light up, Indicating which Apeirogonal is available.
Simple form is one slot that will display either SIN, COS or TAN.

[Seraphor]

Another thing I should point out with the viability of aetherprobe fields.

Once you have your first triangle set up, if you lose probes, you either need to start the process over (30s or more until you get another triangle) or your triangles will get progressively smaller.

If you first triangle has lengths of 9, 12 and 15y, the side between probes A and B (hypotenuse) will be 15y.
You lose probe A, now you're left with a 12y corridor between probes B and C, your new hypotenuse when placing a third one as probe D, which will result in a triangle of something like 8, 9 and 12y.

You could preserve the size of your triangles by making long, thin ones, where the remaining side is still almost as long as the hypotenuse, however doing so will cost you field area.
Just another conscious choice you have to make when playing, and why the Aetherprobe mechanic is so hands on.

[Eloah]

Okay, I'll read this carefully when I can, just glancing at it at the moment. But I have a very important question... Where is your raise skill?