Should FF14 take a new route? Discussion

[Remedi]

I can't really give an unbiased answer since I've been badly burned by wow, from my point of wiew even getting the normal formula is even of a victory and even for new content my expectation is kinda on the low side to the point I simply play it to see how it exactly goes.

[Vahlnir]

I can't really give an unbiased answer since I've been badly burned by wow, from my point of wiew even getting the normal formula is even of a victory and even for new content my expectation is kinda on the low side to the point I simply play it to see how it exactly goes.

Tbh, it's not really a "XIV vs WoW" sorta deal...it's XIV vs most other MMOs period, and comes up short in comparison to most of them in a lot of areas, including the one that came before it, XI. Not all areas, but too many. WoW has just been the "king" for ages, and because of that it's popular. Even in its current state it has more active subs than every other MMO on the market. It's actually doing pretty well atm. So, people such as myself tend to look to it to see some pretty dang good ideas that could be beneficial here. But we don't stop there. Other MMOs should be looked at as well for inspiration.

We shouldn't have to have low expectations from the XIV team or even from SE itself. But, they are making it increasingly harder to remain optimistic. Time and time again they continue to disappoint in some way or another, while telling us "it'll be great next time guys, we promise!"

No, no it won't. Not with the current direction. Something needs to be done to correct the course of this game, whether it be more funds or new ideas...preferably with at least a few new sets of eyes.

All of this said, if I wasn't enjoying the game I wouldn't be here. I just want to see it improve, not go the opposite direction. In HW it began to stagnate. In SB it seems like we're basically going in reverse.

[Remedi]

Tbh, it's not really a "XIV vs WoW" sorta deal...it's XIV vs most other MMOs period, and comes up short in comparison to most of them in a lot of areas, including the one that came before it, XI. Not all areas, but too many. WoW has just been the "king" for ages, and because of that it's popular. Even in its current state it has more active subs than every other MMO on the market. It's actually doing pretty well atm. So, people such as myself tend to look to it to see some pretty dang good ideas that could be beneficial here. But we don't stop there. Other MMOs should be looked at as well for inspiration.

We shouldn't have to have low expectations from the XIV team or even from SE itself. But, they are making it increasingly harder to remain optimistic. Time and time again they continue to disappoint in some way or another, while telling us "it'll be great next time guys, we promise!"

No, no it won't. Not with the current direction. Something needs to be done to correct the course of this game, whether it be more funds or new ideas...preferably with at least a few new sets of eyes.

All of this said, if I wasn't enjoying the game I wouldn't be here. I just want to see it improve, not go the opposite direction. In HW it began to stagnate. In SB it seems like we're basically going in reverse.

What I wanted to say to Marluxia was that I feel extremely detached by anything a game dev says and the reason is that I essentially grew up with the bed of broken promises of wow devs, which is also the reason that the whole debate that we lost 1-2 reskin dungeon for this (insert content) kinda humor me, since most of the time that you expected something aside the new raid tier from a wow patch you would've been left with nothing (then they started cutting on that too yeeee....)
As such my opinion is extremely biased and probably a tad depressing and that's why I'm not the right person to discuss this with

I mean, to me getting the same formula each patch is a victory and I'm sure I'm probably in the minority in thinking this way

[Vahlnir]

What I wanted to say to Marluxia was that I feel extremely detached by anything a game dev says and the reason is that I essentially grew up with the bed of broken promises of wow devs, which is also the reason that the whole debate that we lost 1-2 reskin dungeon for this (insert content) kinda humor me, since most of the time that you expected something aside the new raid tier from a wow patch you would've been left with nothing (then they started cutting on that too yeeee....)
As such my opinion is extremely biased and probably a tad depressing and that's why I'm not the right person to discuss this with

I mean, to me getting the same formula each patch is a victory and I'm sure I'm probably in the minority in thinking this way

The formula itself is something that I don't have much of an issue with, oddly enough. But the formula isn't all there is to the game. There needs to be extra content on the side as well...and that is where they come up short most of all. I'll compare XIV to a ham sandwich: You have the ham, which is the center of it all (aka the formula)....then they add something else (idk, mustard?) but really skimp on it....oops, no bread. We have an unfinished sandwich almost incapable of holding itself together. This applies to just about everything NOT the formula, including the servers and content diversity.

[Remedi]

The formula itself is something that I don't have much of an issue with, oddly enough. But the formula isn't all there is to the game. There needs to be extra content on the side as well...and that is where they come up short most of all. I'll compare XIV to a ham sandwich: You have the ham, which is the center of it all (aka the formula)....then they add something else (idk, mustard?)....oops, no bread. We have an unfinished sandwich almost incapable of holding itself together. This applies to just about everything NOT the formula, including the servers.

Don't take it the wrong way, I think that giving proper feedback and beign vocal is the correct way of doing things, I'm a bit bitter that most of the times it ends up beign an echo chamber of doom and gloom that doesn't really help the game.
I mean broken mess can and should be fixed

About servers, I'd rather have them taking a bold approach and even take the game down for as long as it needs to be completely fixed (Or in exchange removing this retarded 1k limit)

[Alleo]

The formula itself is something that I don't have much of an issue with, oddly enough.

I agree with that. I am fine with x dungeons, y raids and trails and all the basic stuff per patch if we at least get something really new every second patch or something. It does not have to be liked by everyone everytime but it would be nice to have a major new content that is for casual players that is quite well liked and more importantly live long. (I am talking about more than one expansion long)

PotD is the only more casual (but also great for a challenge) content that they have released that still is alive after the expansion itself is over. I dont find this to be a good track record and thats why I would have no problems if they take successful content from other game with maybe their own spin on it but without making it so complicated like Eureka..(or limited like the dresser)

[Clover_Blake]

Basically, not another retread of the the precise same formulas they have been using since ARR. Honestly, what has Stormblood offered that differs from Heavensward? They don't need to overhaul the whole game but they do need to innovate. The fact I can predict almost everything that will release before 5.0 speaks volumes to how absolutely safe their approach has been.

Thank you for the reply! It's true we can predict the formula that next patches will follow. I understand this might not be good for some people, though it's not a bad thing for me. I enjoy doing dungeons and I especially enjoy doing 24-man raids, and knowing what's coming next helps me plan ahead with my alts. Furthermore, beside the means to obtain tomes, SE always makes efforts to add other different things and mini games, so I personally can't complain about lack of variety either.

If it's alright, I'd like to comment on a pair of the suggestions you said:

[*]Actual innovation on core concepts. Is it really so much to ask for a new progression system beyond "collect this newly coloured tomestome?"

I see many people asking for this, but no one actually says what kind of innovation. The current tomes system serves a) for everyone to get the gear if they work for it (no RNG involved), and b) for everyone, no matter how much or how little time you have, to get the gear at the same pace. This means no one is left behind, which I’ve always been thankful for. I for one can’t come up with any other system that might be better, and I fear that changing this might result in a less friendly system (>_<)

[*]Gear which has greater longevity than a few months.

This point comes with two possible problems that I at least can foresee. 1. Since the gear can last for a whole year instead of half a year, perhaps the means to obtain it might be more grindy and might take longer. Perhaps tons of RNG involved like Mabinogi:Heroes/Vindictus? (This wouldn’t be a good thing for me). And 2. Since there’s no better gear to obtain for a whole year, people who already own it would have no reason whatsoever to play. There could also be no point in releasing new sets at all for a long time. I like getting new gear because it gives me new purposes, and I personally think the half a year spawn is quite good, for it's not too demanding and neither does it make you wait forever with nothing else to aim for.

In any case, SE keeps experimenting with new kinds of content, like Eureka which is different than anything else we had ingame. So I don't think that they maintaining the same formula about gear progression is a bad thing; it's worked so far, at least for me. Other things you mentioned, like dungeons that have some randomly generated elements (if I understood that correctly) sound fun in my opinion; perhaps SE will implement that someday ^^

[Aniond]

I would like to see combat redone. The combo system and skill bloat isnt fun. FF11 was much simplier but was fun. Skill Chain and magic bursts made the combat alive. For a group combat raids are nothign more then a solo battle.

[Aronys]

This point comes with two possible problems that I at least can foresee. 1. Since the gear can last for a whole year instead of half a year, perhaps the means to obtain it might be more grindy and might take longer. Perhaps tons of RNG involved like Mabinogi:Heroes/Vindictus? (This wouldn’t be a good thing for me). And 2. Since there’s no better gear to obtain for a whole year, people who already own it would have no reason whatsoever to play. There could also be no point in releasing new sets at all for a long time. I like getting new gear because it gives me new purposes, and I personally think the half a year spawn is quite good, for it's not too demanding and neither does it make you wait forever with nothing else to aim for.

That's false. GW2 for example adds new gear but it's not necessary to get it to continue the game. I've had a set there since 2012 that is still relevant and I can do every piece of content with it. I even made a new character and in a month got it to the endgame, got max level gear really easy and continue with it into the 2 expansions they released since. The game is still very much active, many people still play it since launch and enjoy it. That's because the emphasis is not on gear in that game, but on skills, as it has horizontal progression. The game is designed with much harder enemies and nothing is faceroll difficulty. Heck, the old launch dungeons are still sometimes so hard it's impossible to beat them.

Not to mention that the game changed and evolved a lot since it's initial launch. They changed how you move around the world, added masteries that also change your class on a almost basic level, and you can be building your character for months with those. In XIV, once you reach 70, that's it. Nothing changes anymore. No new abilities, no new traits, nothing.

[Tridus]

I think it's important to note that we, the players, don't have a strong idea of where FFXIV is headed.

The Letters from the Producer are there, yes, but they're sporadic and don't really give players any idea of what to expect other than the content that's been played to death already.

Good point. The letters from the producer are about what's immediately coming up. Long term? Who knows. Like, I have no idea what the vision for Eureka is beyond what's there, or even if there is one. Are improvements coming? Will there be additions that have more story, or whole new systems? Who knows.

I tend to think some early feedback might help. If we'd seen that level disparity breaks playing with friends in there outside of the train, maybe we could have brought that up early enough to do something about it instead of discovering it after the fact.