We need better comunication with the Community team

[Divinemights]

It's possible to have a discussion of different opinions without it beign derailed into a flame war pls?

Unfortunately, our forum community simply can not do that
I just finish reading all of 92 pages of JP Eureka discussion thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...83%AC%E3%82%AB

Their discussion in this thread is much more civil than us, clear points are being made, opposite opinions are respected and you rarely seeing comment that directly insulting devs or S/E.
If you takes at our own generalization forum, posters must attack S/E or dev first and label anyone holding different opinions as white knights.
If posters can not respect the opposite opinion, there is not much useful information can be extract form this forum
It will always end up a flame war.

[Starflake]

Nope, not entertaining.

Though, not sarcastically, we cannot have a discussion about different opinions as long as people are not open sharing with others what they really wanted about something. For example: people complaining about Eureka, but not stating what they wanted Eureka to be like (ie: their expectations).

But it does not matter what I want for Eureka, what we are discussing is: what is it. These are two things completely different and both angles completely legitimate to discuss / complain about.
I am very active in FATE farm and solo mobs all the time. None of the mechanics are new, some mechanics are assigned to different mobs and that is it. You still get poisoned by the Emperor mobs, you still get ice balls from Hydras, you still see the breath attack by the dragons, you still see Scorpions to their tail attack, you still see bears just doing basic aoes, still see the same mechanics in Pazzuzu, in and out, dodge and kill adds. The only mechanic that is somewhat new is running a way from an attack that is not telegraphed. But the bombs to little exploding aoes around them. Which is a mechanic done in Brayflox normal mode but in the form of a stomp. Nothing new at all. And I am somehow in the wrong for pointing these things out?

- Terrible gameplay, no new mechanics, but ocassionally something new assigned to different mobs
- Terrible Fating system which is basically mindless grinding to get good experience. Does not push people to actually participate in grinding the mobs
- Reward system is terrible. Glamour items flood in like crazy, don't need more than one. Useless confetti, useless materia most of the time.
- Uninspiring story
- Does not encourage partying up with friends, really. Especially with a wider spectrum of jobs, hobbies and the like. Level disparity makes for completely different experiences.
- Does not encourage class authenticity, but Ress mages and healers
- Poor new relic step where everything is a dyable reskin

I can keep going for a bit, but that doesn't matter. Stop pretending that just because someone critisized without explaining what they want it to be, that somehow their critique is unfair, unsubtantiated or just "crying". Thanks.

[Alleo]

Question OP:

How would you prioritize feedback if you were SE? Would you reply to every point of contention? What kind of feedback would you consider acceptable?

Lets look at housing, to this day its a highly contentious subject. Many conflicting ideas on how it could be handled or "fixed" have been presented and they have responded basically "working as intended"..

I am not the OP but I am going to post my view on this. (Also I am sure that they are just using Eureka as an example because its the most recent content)

First I would implement surveys in the game. Maybe every player will get special ones if they reach certain mile stones that ask them about their opinion of the game. And on top of that they should have one survey after each big patch that will talk about the specific content that was released there. (Maybe a few weeks after that content) Question them about them doing it, why they are doing it, if they find it fun, if they want more of that and what changes they would like to see. Everyone might have a different view on stuff but I am quite sure that there will be some points that can be found much more than others. With such surveys they would truly know how people feel. (Instead of just using numbers) And this would at least give me as a customer the feeling that my opinion will reach them in some way.

Also they should give people the option to say why they are not playing it anymore. They finally added some options but they are bare boned ones that dont really tell much.

Then they should look at the forum and reddit. We might not be the majority of the playerbase but we are sometimes quite right. (Diadem, LoV) They dont have to take every single thread as a serious idea but if you have threads that are constantly popping up with the same problem and people are really discussing that you might want to look at that problem. (Still doesnt mean that they have to change anything) Also threads with really high amounts of likes should have been looked at too, the same with the ones with lots of pages because there could be something interesting there. This way simple troll threads or those with unrealistic wishes might not be noted or not taken seriously.

Nope, not entertaining.

Though, not sarcastically, we cannot have a discussion about different opinions as long as people are not open sharing with others what they really wanted about something. For example: people complaining about Eureka, but not stating what they wanted Eureka to be like (ie: their expectations).

People are not talking about their problems with Eureka in this because this is not the thread for that. (It was simply used as an example and its sad that so much discussion is about it again) A lot of us that disliked it had pointed out the flaws we saw in a lot of other topics that are about it. (The constructive critisim thread for example)

Just wanted to point that out because people did do that but not here.

Completely off topic: Some japanese posters had attacked the devs and the company too, for example when housing was released for private houses, I do recall that some of the posters over there asked for Yoshida to step down. Heck even in the Eureka thread you have people calling it really bad and asking the devs if they are thinking that this fun. (And the japanese playerbase likes to black list people outside the game and stuff like that so some of them are also not that pleasant) We should also not forget that they are from a culture that cares a lot about not losing their "face" or the face of the other person but this does not mean that they cant just be mean in another way. They are just more indirect about it. (Like the black list stuff) This forum is visited by a lot of different cultures. Its not only a NA forum but one where everyone that can speak english can participate. And then you will have those that are completely outspoken about something which might come over as quite aggressive and those that are not. And many more different flavors. That there will be more heat is kinda a given. The sad thing is, that there always will be a really small handful of people that are turning any discussions into something bad and people want to correct them (I do that too) and thus they just give them even more things to make bigger flames. Sadly even if you ignore them they will still post and insult.

[Remedi]

Dunno about surveys, it might just postpone the problem if ppl starting feeling like they are ignoring them, it's just like reddit and the forum since they say they do follow them but ppl feels like they don't.
I'd say that communication should come more from them especially in the form of translating more of producer's talk or at least let us know and maybe some1 from the team could do what yoshida does of server hopping like in the new year when he answer to ppl questions.

[Alleo]

Dunno about surveys, it might just postpone the problem if ppl [..].

Well then they could just simply post some results of the surveys. I mean you will always have a small amount of people that will feel left out but this would at least give SE the chance to truly read what the whole community things. (If they want to even know it)

Yeah I agree with the server hopping. Not only should they give us more and deeper official translations on producers talks but there should be a blog or maybe a special spot on this side where they will translate all the stuff that Yoshida says so that we have reliable informations and not something that is purely translated by the community. They could write up a japanese script of his talk and after he read it over and said its okay the translators could directly use that and since it would be posted on the japanese forum too people can still translate it to themselves.

[MageBlack]

I am not OP but I am going to post my view on this. (Also I am sure that they are just using Eureka as an example because its the most recent content)

No worries. I only directed it at the OP because I was hoping to draw things away from the senseless bickering and actually discuss possible solutions and try to put things into perspective.

First I would implement surveys in the game. Maybe every player will get one special one if they reach certain mile stones in the game that ask them about their opinion of the game. And on top of that they should have one survey after each big patch that will talk about the specific content that was released there. (Maybe a few weeks after that content) Question them about them doing it, why they are doing it, if they find it fun, if they want more of that and what changes they would like to see. Everyone might have a different view on stuff but I am quite sure that there will be some points that can be found much more than others. With such surveys they would truly know how people feel. (Instead of just using numbers) This would at least give me as a customer the feeling that my opinion will reach them in some way.

For surveys, questionnaires, and polls to actually be effective and accurate it would have to be mandatory for all active players. They would also need to be very carefully worded so they are clear and understandable and arent begging the question. Even something as simple as having a comments box at the end cant fully articulate a persons full feedback. There would also be the issue of multiple accounts for a single user, bots, etc.

Personally I hate polls and surveys and generally dont fill them out if I can at all avoid it.

Also they should give people the option to say why they are not playing it anymore. They finally added some options but they are bare boned ones that dont really tell much.

I like this, having a better feedback channel open for those quitting the game would be great. However its usually too little too late at that time when you are talking about MMO's I know in the past once I have left an MMO I dont ever look back at it. That kind of feedback is almost the "too little, too late" situation but its better late than never, could still benefit the ones playing.

Then they should look at the forum and reddit. We might not be the majority of the playerbase but we are sometimes quite right. (Diadem, LoV) They dont have to take every single thread as a serious idea but if you have threads that are constantly popping up with the same problem and people are really discussing that you might want to look at that problem. (Still doesnt mean that they have to change anything) Also threads with really high amounts of likes should have been looked at too, the same with the ones with lots of pages because there could be something interesting there. This way simple troll threads or those with unrealistic wishes might not be noted or not taken seriously.

This would require a pretty big team of thick skinned people to tackle those cesspools, just to have the kind of feedback and attention people like the OP want with all the languages SE supports.

Currently the way I think it works is the main team (JP) does this with the Japanese forums, responds, then they look for a comparable post on the other language forums then get a translator to convey the message.

I think what bothers me most about garnering feedback from the forums and reddit is, at least in North America, people cant just civilly provide feedback. Its always a personal affront to the poster, have to blow things way out of proportion so they get taken seriously, and if you disagree with me I'm going to skullfuck your mom. (Sorry for the extreme but I know you read these forums too, i'm not far off). No one can give measured and valuable feedback and its mostly just a personal preference why they dont "like" a particular piece of content.

Then there is also the issue where you have two sides equally upset with a situation. For an example (totally arbitrary and made up) One player doesnt like dungeons, feels its a waist of time, no useful rewards, there are better ways to level up, we should just get rid of dungeons all together since they are useless and instead focus on my favorite content the High End Raids (BCoB, Alex, Omega). Then another player comes in and says they dont like High End Raids, feels its a waist of time, no useful rewards, there are better ways to challenge your players, we should just get rid of High End Raids all together since they are useless and instead focus on my favorite content the dungeons.

This is how I am seeing the majority of the "feedback" for Eureka. Its a personal preference thing. Yes there are legitimate issues with the content (Mob priority, turn-ins, party sync) but that is all patch-able. People have been petitioning for like this thread from all the way back in 2012 looking for almost exactly what we have now with Eureka. Complaints like slow leveling, the grind is too long, reskinned mobs, etc are all counter to things asked for in these threads. There are more, just search the forums for "open world exp party".

The only reason I'm bringing this up in this thread is because I wanted to illustrate how frustrating it must be to be a dev and have one side of the forums pulling on one arm, the other side pulling on the other arm and trying to find an answer that satisfies both parties. Sometimes you just have to accept that a particular piece of content will just be something you wont end up doing.

[Ruf]

What is it that you wanted with Eureka?

I wanted NO EUREKA!

You are just complaining with the same exact complaints that everyone else is bitching about.

You speak about me buddy

Pvp really?Well if you want to add this to the list sure,ppl do complain about pvp(I'm not doing it but I sure see their comments)

Let me add,train of rmts doing storylines(do you know how many of theses ive seen while running my slow lalafell mule around the whole storyline for a second time?)
X Y Z disappear with characters under the ground & pop 1000yalms away in a matter of seconds,that is one thing that could be handled much better,

NXT,
Main scenario fix that force players doing the roulette to watch 1hour of cutscene for no reason(I stopped doing that roulette the day it got implemented)
MS roulette should be completely removed or more should be added to it(I will leave & take the 30minutes penalty if I get a praetorium & the other dungeon if I get that as roulette)
One fix could be to take off the 30seconds zoom on your staggered face in the cs & cut down the cs time by half & even half of it probably would be too much.

Housing could of been all stormblood was in my opinion with this 17months that took this one eureka zone soo far.Wards/plots could use more items to display,
we could turn around the way houses are facing on the land or even move them to a different corner, we could use more exterior designs like some said some are actually bad depending on positions & players would use more basic simple one, or make more extraordinaire exteriors like tonberry, limitation that doesn't allow me to put hedges completely around my plot shouldn't be(hedge shouldn't even exist if you cant do proper use of it,theres not enough items allowed to layout because then its at the cost of everything else (like I posted under housing,Go read elsewhere))

Housing insides,doors options are very limited & so most of that look bad unless you manage to make miracles with the 3 options you have,
interactive items,go past 40 & your items disappear at sight,Default pillars & windows inside are not customizable you actually have to hide them if you dont like them.

Mounts/Generic musics versus original songs or just duplicatas///
When on a double seater mount as a passenger, you can not utilize some items like (aether current compass) while on your own mount by yourself you can,
Also I noticed that you can not change ring#2 slot no matter what you do if you are passenger it'll always go to ring #1 (unless I'm mistaken,,,)

Also,

Spoiler alert: Do dragoon questline as soon as you can upon getting access to coerthas (dragonhead)area because further on the main mission line it actually doesn't match this questline too well anymore.

Fishing & collectables:while gathering with botany & miner for turn ins, to my knowledge while you can get optimal values with theses 2 fishing is a whole different story,
offhand tool could be great for more gathering & perception yet all we have is gig.

As ppl mentioned before too much of a crowd means npc(monsters & players in your party) disappear from screen/vicinity.

FC requirement for workshop? anyone who is/can be a single fc holder or even if there is 4 members,it doesn't mean you possibly have all of them on at the time wanted yet fc can handle building stuffs by themselves
as long as they get 3 other persons randomly asking.

Specialist souls for crafters, limited to 3.

Macros,macros is one thing that make 11,macros system is definatly something that should be fixed.

Limitations on some items should be removed like, a lot of medicines recast timers arnt worth it, also there is no reason that we should only be allowed x2 food duration as they already doubled it, we should be allowed 24hours if we wanted as for a new player sprinting the whole path from a to z skipping cutscenes (skippable ones...) take about 14days of playtime instead we have to use food every 1h & thus forgetting it at times, if you want to just do that you should be able to imo, sure you dont want vitality & you do want crafting food instead well so be it,overwrite the food, that would be our mistake not coding.

Zodiac to Anima glass, how come did we get a key item for anima weapons but the good old zodiac stand physicaly in your inventory? I started a zodiac book for sch, I accidently cancelled the quest (glad I wasn't far into it) but the maximum allowance to quests accepted (specially as there is soooooo many of them) should be pushed further on the limit or at the very least some quests should fall under a specific category.

I could state many more things but instead ill just say this,There is soo many things that could be done for this game health & instead we get the current first eureka feel which ppl claim that it took 17months, heck I think 12 months for that would be just as bad , as Vstarstruck stated,I would take a single dungeon over this & while a couple of you are saying that we just lost one dungeon, (Im one of the few that think the production rate of a single dungeon per patches is actually very little) I want a full expansion pack upon purchasing not several crumbs over 12months, Hildebrand storyline seems to be going downhill & the highlight is that whenever new missions get released, it last 1day.

That's just 2cents,not a 100dollar bill.
Get real

[Vstarstruck]

@Xtrasweettea vs Starflake and ruf
stop, there are other topics for this, (and the place I will comment on)
[the reason this post is short is for telling you to stop, I dont have enough time to put in full details of thought]

Question OP:

How would you prioritize feedback if you were SE? Would you reply to every point of contention? What kind of feedback would you consider acceptable?

Lets look at housing, to this day its a highly contentious subject. Many conflicting ideas on how it could be handled or "fixed" have been presented and they have responded basically "working as intended". Now I know your OP was directly tied to Eureka (since I saw you posting on almost every Eureka thread) but aside from some minor adjustments (Mob prioritizing, adjust turn-in's) what if everything else was working as intended? They have already posted there are some drop adjustments coming and a level sync function, and a few other things came out of that walk. Which brings me to another question, should the devs be posting a translation to every interview they do outside the official channels? Should the nico nico interviews be posted here in full by the devs? Translate to all languages too?

Another case in point, see the image below. Does this need addressing and is this worthy of immediate action?



I'm not saying you are wrong to ask for more communication, I know I scour the interwebs for information every now and then but I also know I can come here and if i can wade through all the junk posts, there is the occasional good gem of information that the wonderful playerbase finds then posts here. Have you ever had to work in customer service? been a cashier at a supermarket or tech support or anything like that? If you have I'm sure you have your own horror stories about really stupid customers and their equally stupid complaints. This is the forums. Idiotic complaints pop up faster than you could swat them down and end up making it more difficult for legitimate concerns to be heard and answered properly.

First off that thread, I am guessing it is hyperbole made to mock people making threads about savage boss exclusive or something. I am guessing that is the point, you want me to explain how to sort BS from real feedback.

First of all what Allo said is pretty fitting (so much so it made SE said "Eureka will not be diadem" the threads can be a reflection of the problems, not the real thing. Being a reflection, one can note this is a potential problem, while doing surveys like Alleo pointed out.

They did surveys in 1.0, why did it stop?

Also do not make assumptions, I will not talk about diadem specific problems here

[MageBlack]

-snip-

Thats the long and short of it. How to you filter and categorize good useful feedback from useless feedback and the repeated topics popping up constantly? This thread was complaining about lack of response from devs so I'll try and keep it relevant.

From near as I could tell that thread was not parody. So what would happen if the response was "working as intended" would that be sufficient?

[Ruf]

Thats the long and short of it. How to you filter and categorize good useful feedback from useless feedback and the repeated topics popping up constantly? This thread was complaining about lack of response from devs so I'll try and keep it relevant.

From near as I could tell that thread was not parody. So what would happen if the response was "working as intended" would that be sufficient?

not really no