We need better comunication with the Community team

[Tridus]

I even recall them saying they did not want to continue making the Letters from the Producer Live events once 2.X concluded. Honestly this whole mindset of "Why dont the devs listen to me!" Was born from this entitled mentality this generation has. Sooooo many armchair devs in the forums...

Kids today and their rock music need to get off your lawn, right?

If you think people complaining about not being listened to by game devs is a new thing for this generation, you are in desperate need of a history lesson from a game developer.

[Stormfur]

I seem to remember reading that they wanted to do the Letter from the Producer leading up to 2.0, but it was received so well (despite their trepidation) that they continued doing it. I like those letters, but I wish they'd answer more of our long-standing questions and not just wave them off.

As best as I can piece together the situation with the community team, is that there are things they can and cannot say because development work is ongoing and ever changing. It's like trying to pick out one raindrop from a storm.

[Vhailor]

I even recall them saying they did not want to continue making the Letters from the Producer Live events once 2.X concluded. Honestly this whole mindset of "Why dont the devs listen to me!" Was born from this entitled mentality this generation has. Sooooo many armchair devs in the forums...

Armchair developers only exist en masse when the actual developers are screwing up in obvious ways. Ever compare the number of people who question the Patriots vs. the Browns? Yeah. Same thing here.

Also, the word you're looking for is "modern", not "entitled". The internet era has, above anything else, enabled a level of communication never before seen in human history. Amongst other things, it's given companies the ability to truly involve their consumers in their product development cycles, to the benefit of all sides. When consumers then turn to companies who aren't bothering with this more responsive approach to business, there's little patience for it. It boils down to not being satisfied with software development practices that seem transplanted out of the previous century.

[Claviusnex]

[QUOTE=MageBlack;4636340.... Was born from this entitled mentality this generation has. ....[/QUOTE]

I don't know how old you are but I'm old enough to have seen a few younger generations not including mine. It is rather cheap shot using the "Entitled" term when you can't come up with a rational argument. A little lesson, every generation has been labeled lazy, entitled, spoiled, take your pick by the older ones. The fact is it has nothing to do with the younger folks and reflects prejudices of the older generation. Many older folks show a real sense of entitlement and refuse to entertain the possibility that they aren't the greatest generation that ever lived. Most of these kids, at my age I've earned the right to call anyone I want a kid, work as hard as their older peers but unlike them still have the optimism and energy of youth many older people have lost. So my suggestion to you is to drop the generational insults and work harder on a counter argument as to why it isn't important for developers FF XIV to be involved with their customer base.

[Vstarstruck]

I don't know how old you are but I'm old enough to have seen a few younger generations not including mine. It is rather cheap shot using the "Entitled" term when you can't come up with a rational argument. A little lesson, every generation has been labeled lazy, entitled, spoiled, take your pick by the older ones. The fact is it has nothing to do with the younger folks and reflects prejudices of the older generation. Many older folks show a real sense of entitlement and refuse to entertain thepossibility that they aren't the greatest generation that ever lived. Most of these kids, at my age I've earned the right to call anyone I want a kid, work as hard as their older peers but unlike them still have the optimism and energy of youth many older people have lost. So my suggestion to you is to drop the generational insults and work harder on a counter argument as to why it isn't important for developers FF XIV to be involved with their customer base.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gwyEyx5gJ0

that is all

Armchair developers only exist en masse when the actual developers are screwing up in obvious ways. Ever compare the number of people who question the Patriots vs. the Browns? Yeah. Same thing here.

Also, the word you're looking for is "modern", not "entitled". The internet era has, above anything else, enabled a level of communication never before seen in human history. Amongst other things, it's given companies the ability to truly involve their consumers in their product development cycles, to the benefit of all sides. When consumers then turn to companies who aren't bothering with this more responsive approach to business, there's little patience for it. It boils down to not being satisfied with software development practices that seem transplanted out of the previous century.

Kids today and their rock music need to get off your lawn, right?

If you think people complaining about not being listened to by game devs is a new thing for this generation, you are in desperate need of a history lesson from a game developer.

+1 to you too

There is a difference between "why dont they listen to me" or the feeling that they are barely listening to the community at all. If I am seen as entitled because I am using my right as a customer that pays money to say that I get the feeling that they are barely speaking to half their playerbase and that it needs changes...well then I am entitled. But I honestly dont care because I want to play this game for a long time and they said that criticism is better than simple compliments and that they should listen to their fanbase..and if some of us get the feeling that they are lacking in that part then we can point it out.

Going back on topic, or least trying to, can anyone explain why the hotfox to streamline the conversions came out of nowhere with nothing said?
I would of greatly liked to see a reply on that right away with the eurkia complaints, not lockboxes.
(note I am happy they changed that, as I was not getting a relic without it, but still since this subject matter is on communication issues.. still fitting to comment on...

[Vhailor]

Going back on topic, or least trying to, can anyone explain why the hotfox to streamline the conversions came out of nowhere with nothing said?
I would of greatly liked to see a reply on that right away with the eurkia complaints, not lockboxes.
(note I am happy they changed that, as I was not getting a relic without it, but still since this subject matter is on communication issues.. still fitting to comment on...

I agree, this is a great example of where communication is needed. I'd have liked to see SE, not the community, gather together the post-Eureka observations from across their different player bases (EU, Japan, NA), and post a comprehensive list along with their thinking. "We agree with this one, we're working on a fix; we're evaluating this one, but for X reason, we are not acting at this time; we're seeing the need for a PTR, and we're evaluating the availability of resources to make this a reality."

I think had SE made that post - which commits them to very little - much of the anger would have evaporated over Eureka, and I certainly include myself in that category. The power of communication at work.

[MageBlack]

-snip-

I was taking a broad stroke at the current generation living now, all of us, including myself. Its by comparison to what it was like when I was younger, we had fewer methods of communication and when a game came out. No downloads, patches, updates, forums, etc, never really had any preview of what was coming until it hit shelves, that was it. Does that mean things were better that way? Not really.

This is what I mean by entitled: I finally am able to have an avenue to express my thoughts an opinions in a space that is relevant to the topic and if I dont get a response/the response I'm looking for it gives me the right to claim no one is listening.

That's entitlement; the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

It's incredible going from needing to write a letter on paper and send it off to a company and never knowing if they even got it let alone read it or cared what I said to being able to have full on conversations with people all across the globe. We are in an age of instant gratification and short little sound bites of 128 chr's or less. My comment was tongue in cheek but it seems to have struck quite a nerve with people all assuming what i meant.

This just further illustrates the issue with trying to communicate in this way. hardly anyone listens to the 5 paragraph, well thought out, well worded comment but instead the two min troll gets all the reactions and feedback. I know, I have tried before to take the time to be articulate and thoughtful but then the post about "Why cant I suplex Phantomtrain?!?!" gets the biggest reaction (just a random example).

Sorry if I offended you guys, your offense about being offended so you offend the devs has offended me. 22 pages and weeks later the offense continues. I do feel your point was made quite clearly in your OP.

[KisaiTenshi]

This just further illustrates the issue with trying to communicate in this way. hardly anyone listens to the 5 paragraph, well thought out, well worded comment but instead the two min troll gets all the reactions and feedback. I know, I have tried before to take the time to be articulate and thoughtful but then the post about "Why cant I suplex Phantomtrain?!?!" gets the biggest reaction (just a random example).
.

My average, long post on this site tends to get people to argue over that that one thing that I ether was too general or too vague on, and the rest of it gets disregarded. I can quote entire sections of the ToS, or the official descriptions of things from the website, and I will still get some dingdong trying to argue it's wrong.

[Stormfur]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gwyEyx5gJ0

that is all


+1 to you too

Going back on topic, or least trying to, can anyone explain why the hotfox to streamline the conversions came out of nowhere with nothing said?

I think I read, either in an interview or on the forum here, that it was planned right after the lockbox thing.

[Remedi]

I think I read, either in an interview or on the forum here, that it was planned right after the lockbox thing.

It was said in the yoshi P unleashed program in JP and then translated on reddit, which returns to the real root of the problem, which is not that the devs do not reach out to the playerbase but that non JP players do not receive this other venues of informations translated and presented to us.

I don't want to start a pointless who is the favorite playerbase argument, I'm just saying that we need to ask the community managers to provide us with informations that are released by the devs in those kind of programs since the entirity of the players do benefit from those.
And that applies to yoshi-P going around the servers during new year too