We need better comunication with the Community team

[Xtrasweettea]

Yay!

1.Starting off with a strawman fallacy. Always a nice indicator or what's to come. I never claimed that people are not allowed to enjoy this content. I made that claim that regardless of enjoyment, it's very poor, predictable, boring and uncreative content. .

It’s the internet. Everything is a strawman argument, including this very statement.

Let's look at what you wrote originally:

It makes me absolutely sad, really, that there are people out there who excuse this content under the banner that they enjoy it. You can enjoy it all you want, that does not change how terrible Eureka actually is.

\

You are “sad” which gives me the impression that you have some sort of superior moral stance that I do not have. You feel sad because others do not have the same mind-set as you have perceived on this topic. This is form of shaming language.

“I feel sad that you went and hung out with those kids down the street when I stated I don’t like them.”

“I feel sad that you like these specific groups of friends, even though I do not like them.”

This is high school level manipulation language you are doing. I’ve seen teenage girls spout this line of thinking to pressure their other female friends to “get in line.” You got the same shit going on here.

2. Just because the same fomula is used elsewhere, does not excuse it being used in other content, nor does it make it any better. False equivalance. Both are boring. However, at least with dungeon, they didn't tell us that they would be new, creative and fun content! Eureka is basically dungeons, sure. If you ask me, both are terrible. But nicely done, again, attempting to misrepresent what I actually think.

You took in the information and hyped that shit up yourself. You are disappointed that your expectations didn’t match what was given. You had something in your mind that SE didn’t give you. You have a mismatch of expectations of outcomes.

You should have taken in the information and just have said “Let’s see when it comes out” and not get an expectation in your head.

3. Same as two really. Useless rewards in other dungeons do not excuse useless rewards in Eureka.

Exactly what I said. I gave SE the excuse to do that. Blame me!

4. Same as 2 and 3. You are just proving my point in this post, I don't know if you noticed. I said exactly this, that none of the content is original or creative. By you saying dumb stuff like "Never happend before in this game"! sarcastically, as you do in 5, you ultimately strenghten my point.

I did not know Strawman was a support class! I thought it was a Tank class! Glad you cleared that up for me.

Or, you think I strengthened your argument with my sarcasm because you actually have no real argument or point. You are just bitching because you still have expectations versus realty mismatch.

If you actually fight the mobs and not AFK, you will notice that almost every mob type has a different move set. Take the toads outside of the starting area. None of them use their tongue to hook you, and they also have a ranged burst AOE attack. No other toad that I know of does this. How about those level 6 grenades near Klauser’s? They don’t self destruct, instead they periodically use a quick from-center AOE attack.

Is this really the logic Eureka defenders utilise? That would explain a thing or two.

We all think this exact same way. We have weekly meetings where we lay out talking points. We have all the self-identified women weave outfits for our strawmen. Last week we had a guest speaker who shared with us proper deflecting techniques.

PS: I'm level 17.

GG, good job at AFKing for NM trains.

[Starflake]

Yay!

But it is indeed quite sad that this content, which is a repeat of anything else in this game has to offer, it still met positively and seen as refreshing. Obviously, it isn't.
I was never hyped for Eureka, as I always thought it would be more of the same. What is the point you're trying to make here though. Does being hyped for certain content excuse the lack of creativity or innovative thinking? I don't think so. Hype has nothing to do with my disliking of Eureka.
You are trying to mask your lack of arguments through witty and sarcastic remarks. You have actually adressed very little. What exactly about what I said is wrong?

Tell me how Eureka is not boring, repetitive, not creative. Tell me how I am wrong about reskins and redesigns. Mobs having different movesets? Please, barely. Cyclops good example, just the same as any other one. No new mechanics at all, really. Everything has been seen before. But I rest easy now, knowing that the grenades do a quick explosive aoe around them. Such creativity. Eureka is saved!

You can try and sarcastically weave around your insanely stupid remark that Eureka is just like all the other mindless and boring content out there and therefore it's a-okay! It won't fare with me, as it is just that, plain stupidity. Sorry I have to put it so bluntly, but no amount of witty sarcasm will make up for that huge blunder of an "argument".

[Ruf]

snipx2

I can do a lot of sarcasm & I personally find it pretty well done at times, but I must admit that you got me beat.
KIDDING, that was really bad, such a failure at trying to counterargument Starflake true posts. I feel the same, I'm not lv17 in eureka but I will be there eventually because I go to help someone else that want to do it while I completely despise it & as others say I contribute to se metric I guess,but that doesn't change the fact that this metric & that game mentality is poop, also someone spoke about ffxi vets into another post (well dang too bad I cant speak about them either/coughcough) but yea its been said that 11 is uncomparable to eureka,ppl are in there for many reasons & while some ppl like it, you dont truthfully know how many players do dislike it but I sure as heck can read what ppl have to say about it (the one's not doing sarcasm).

P.s: MAIN TOPIC: I am surprised nobody replyed/commented to this:

I really wish we had a live chat

[Remedi]

You do realize Pazuzu is actually Hollow Diabolos?

[Divinemights]

A community manager replied in PvP forum today. There are two threads that is making the same request (why there are 2 is beyond me). The community manager replied to the one with no negative comment. (such as S/E dont know how to do what etc) Go figure why are they doing that.

[AngelCheese77]

I would only go if I had friends really wanting to do it, and even then, I read one post by someone that said they are quitting the game over the fact they did not like it, and it is eating up all the play time from everyone in their FC, they can't get FC members to do anything with them that is not Eureka. It takes way too much play time and boring, it has no content, and this is the reply we get?

This is the fault of the players in the FC, not Eureka. If players want to spend time doing stuff in a game, then that is their choice.

I'm in an FC where our members do Eureka quite a fair bit. I got members of my FC spending time doing content I can't get to as I'm not there yet, and I don't complain or threaten to quit over it.

Maybe stop blaming the game and look for another FC or like minded people who aren't interested in Eureka that you can play with?

[MageBlack]

Question OP:

How would you prioritize feedback if you were SE? Would you reply to every point of contention? What kind of feedback would you consider acceptable?

Lets look at housing, to this day its a highly contentious subject. Many conflicting ideas on how it could be handled or "fixed" have been presented and they have responded basically "working as intended". Now I know your OP was directly tied to Eureka (since I saw you posting on almost every Eureka thread) but aside from some minor adjustments (Mob prioritizing, adjust turn-in's) what if everything else was working as intended? They have already posted there are some drop adjustments coming and a level sync function, and a few other things came out of that walk. Which brings me to another question, should the devs be posting a translation to every interview they do outside the official channels? Should the nico nico interviews be posted here in full by the devs? Translate to all languages too?

Another case in point, see the image below. Does this need addressing and is this worthy of immediate action?



I'm not saying you are wrong to ask for more communication, I know I scour the interwebs for information every now and then but I also know I can come here and if i can wade through all the junk posts, there is the occasional good gem of information that the wonderful playerbase finds then posts here. Have you ever had to work in customer service? been a cashier at a supermarket or tech support or anything like that? If you have I'm sure you have your own horror stories about really stupid customers and their equally stupid complaints. This is the forums. Idiotic complaints pop up faster than you could swat them down and end up making it more difficult for legitimate concerns to be heard and answered properly.

[Alleo]

Question OP:

How would you prioritize feedback if you were SE? Would you reply to every point of contention? What kind of feedback would you consider acceptable?

Lets look at housing, to this day its a highly contentious subject. Many conflicting ideas on how it could be handled or "fixed" have been presented and they have responded basically "working as intended"..

I am not the OP but I am going to post my view on this. (Also I am sure that they are just using Eureka as an example because its the most recent content)

First I would implement surveys in the game. Maybe every player will get special ones if they reach certain mile stones that ask them about their opinion of the game. And on top of that they should have one survey after each big patch that will talk about the specific content that was released there. (Maybe a few weeks after that content) Question them about them doing it, why they are doing it, if they find it fun, if they want more of that and what changes they would like to see. Everyone might have a different view on stuff but I am quite sure that there will be some points that can be found much more than others. With such surveys they would truly know how people feel. (Instead of just using numbers) And this would at least give me as a customer the feeling that my opinion will reach them in some way.

Also they should give people the option to say why they are not playing it anymore. They finally added some options but they are bare boned ones that dont really tell much.

Then they should look at the forum and reddit. We might not be the majority of the playerbase but we are sometimes quite right. (Diadem, LoV) They dont have to take every single thread as a serious idea but if you have threads that are constantly popping up with the same problem and people are really discussing that you might want to look at that problem. (Still doesnt mean that they have to change anything) Also threads with really high amounts of likes should have been looked at too, the same with the ones with lots of pages because there could be something interesting there. This way simple troll threads or those with unrealistic wishes might not be noted or not taken seriously.

Nope, not entertaining.

Though, not sarcastically, we cannot have a discussion about different opinions as long as people are not open sharing with others what they really wanted about something. For example: people complaining about Eureka, but not stating what they wanted Eureka to be like (ie: their expectations).

People are not talking about their problems with Eureka in this because this is not the thread for that. (It was simply used as an example and its sad that so much discussion is about it again) A lot of us that disliked it had pointed out the flaws we saw in a lot of other topics that are about it. (The constructive critisim thread for example)

Just wanted to point that out because people did do that but not here.

Completely off topic: Some japanese posters had attacked the devs and the company too, for example when housing was released for private houses, I do recall that some of the posters over there asked for Yoshida to step down. Heck even in the Eureka thread you have people calling it really bad and asking the devs if they are thinking that this fun. (And the japanese playerbase likes to black list people outside the game and stuff like that so some of them are also not that pleasant) We should also not forget that they are from a culture that cares a lot about not losing their "face" or the face of the other person but this does not mean that they cant just be mean in another way. They are just more indirect about it. (Like the black list stuff) This forum is visited by a lot of different cultures. Its not only a NA forum but one where everyone that can speak english can participate. And then you will have those that are completely outspoken about something which might come over as quite aggressive and those that are not. And many more different flavors. That there will be more heat is kinda a given. The sad thing is, that there always will be a really small handful of people that are turning any discussions into something bad and people want to correct them (I do that too) and thus they just give them even more things to make bigger flames. Sadly even if you ignore them they will still post and insult.

[MageBlack]

I am not OP but I am going to post my view on this. (Also I am sure that they are just using Eureka as an example because its the most recent content)

No worries. I only directed it at the OP because I was hoping to draw things away from the senseless bickering and actually discuss possible solutions and try to put things into perspective.

First I would implement surveys in the game. Maybe every player will get one special one if they reach certain mile stones in the game that ask them about their opinion of the game. And on top of that they should have one survey after each big patch that will talk about the specific content that was released there. (Maybe a few weeks after that content) Question them about them doing it, why they are doing it, if they find it fun, if they want more of that and what changes they would like to see. Everyone might have a different view on stuff but I am quite sure that there will be some points that can be found much more than others. With such surveys they would truly know how people feel. (Instead of just using numbers) This would at least give me as a customer the feeling that my opinion will reach them in some way.

For surveys, questionnaires, and polls to actually be effective and accurate it would have to be mandatory for all active players. They would also need to be very carefully worded so they are clear and understandable and arent begging the question. Even something as simple as having a comments box at the end cant fully articulate a persons full feedback. There would also be the issue of multiple accounts for a single user, bots, etc.

Personally I hate polls and surveys and generally dont fill them out if I can at all avoid it.

Also they should give people the option to say why they are not playing it anymore. They finally added some options but they are bare boned ones that dont really tell much.

I like this, having a better feedback channel open for those quitting the game would be great. However its usually too little too late at that time when you are talking about MMO's I know in the past once I have left an MMO I dont ever look back at it. That kind of feedback is almost the "too little, too late" situation but its better late than never, could still benefit the ones playing.

Then they should look at the forum and reddit. We might not be the majority of the playerbase but we are sometimes quite right. (Diadem, LoV) They dont have to take every single thread as a serious idea but if you have threads that are constantly popping up with the same problem and people are really discussing that you might want to look at that problem. (Still doesnt mean that they have to change anything) Also threads with really high amounts of likes should have been looked at too, the same with the ones with lots of pages because there could be something interesting there. This way simple troll threads or those with unrealistic wishes might not be noted or not taken seriously.

This would require a pretty big team of thick skinned people to tackle those cesspools, just to have the kind of feedback and attention people like the OP want with all the languages SE supports.

Currently the way I think it works is the main team (JP) does this with the Japanese forums, responds, then they look for a comparable post on the other language forums then get a translator to convey the message.

I think what bothers me most about garnering feedback from the forums and reddit is, at least in North America, people cant just civilly provide feedback. Its always a personal affront to the poster, have to blow things way out of proportion so they get taken seriously, and if you disagree with me I'm going to skullfuck your mom. (Sorry for the extreme but I know you read these forums too, i'm not far off). No one can give measured and valuable feedback and its mostly just a personal preference why they dont "like" a particular piece of content.

Then there is also the issue where you have two sides equally upset with a situation. For an example (totally arbitrary and made up) One player doesnt like dungeons, feels its a waist of time, no useful rewards, there are better ways to level up, we should just get rid of dungeons all together since they are useless and instead focus on my favorite content the High End Raids (BCoB, Alex, Omega). Then another player comes in and says they dont like High End Raids, feels its a waist of time, no useful rewards, there are better ways to challenge your players, we should just get rid of High End Raids all together since they are useless and instead focus on my favorite content the dungeons.

This is how I am seeing the majority of the "feedback" for Eureka. Its a personal preference thing. Yes there are legitimate issues with the content (Mob priority, turn-ins, party sync) but that is all patch-able. People have been petitioning for like this thread from all the way back in 2012 looking for almost exactly what we have now with Eureka. Complaints like slow leveling, the grind is too long, reskinned mobs, etc are all counter to things asked for in these threads. There are more, just search the forums for "open world exp party".

The only reason I'm bringing this up in this thread is because I wanted to illustrate how frustrating it must be to be a dev and have one side of the forums pulling on one arm, the other side pulling on the other arm and trying to find an answer that satisfies both parties. Sometimes you just have to accept that a particular piece of content will just be something you wont end up doing.

[Xtrasweettea]

[…] People are not talking about their problems with Eureka in this because this is not the thread for that. (It was simply used as an example and its sad that so much discussion is about it again) A lot of us that disliked it had pointed out the flaws we saw in a lot of other topics that are about it. (The constructive critisim thread for example)

Just wanted to point that out because people did do that but not here.

I know. This thread was discussion on developer to player communications (relations). I was being sarcastic to someone who decided to complain about stuff not even topic related.
If it is any consultation, back in the days of pre Voidwatch FFXI, developer communication was limited to live events you had to go to. There was no forum. I know that the developer relations for FF14 are not good as other companies. I just remember the non-existent commination SE used to have with its player base. I hope SE continues improving their relations with the player base.