A design philosophy flaw. Misunderstanding what is fun and reward structure.

[NekoNova]

TLDR: There is no TLDR. This is a well thought out, passionate post. Take 10 minutes out of your day and give it a read.

Final Fantasy XIV is currently, i think, to most players, going through a clear stale period in its development, those of us playing since ARR launch have actually seen very little to no improvement on content areas or significant changes, ilustrated on how basically dungeon and raid design has stayed the same through more than 4 years now.

Sorry, but I cannot really agree to this statement.
It's a way too general sweeping statement that doesn't do the game justice at all.
Granted, there are definitely issues that have been dragged along since before ARR even, but to claim the entire game is stale without improvement?

Heavensward introduced new mechanics in dungeons with stacking and spreading.
Diadem was an attempt at different content, sadly not the content that was wanted or appreciated by most people.
Many of the raids and primal mods had unique mechanics that had to be completed
The WT was a nice attempt at getting people to run content that was no longer relevant

I understand that people dislike the repetition and grinds.
There's moments where I question what's the point of spending months again to collect this one item.
But on the other side, content can only be delivered at a rate that the developers can handle.
And yes, for some people that's probably too slow, whereas for others it's still way too fast.
It's impossible to please everyone with this, and in my personal opinion the delivery cycles are fine. I have enough to do between patches, and can't get everything done either.

[Dzian]

But on the other side, content can only be delivered at a rate that the developers can handle.
And yes, for some people that's probably too slow, whereas for others it's still way too fast.
It's impossible to please everyone with this, and in my personal opinion the delivery cycles are fine. I have enough to do between patches, and can't get everything done either.

Without wanting to go too much into it. Because I've already made some pretty large posts with my concerns and opinions recently.

Imo it's not how quick or slow they put content out that's the problem. The problem is how long the content lasts.
I wouldn't mind 1 patch per year if that patch had enough to keep me going and keep me busy for the next 12 or 18 months.

The issue though is content just doesn't last. Except maybe expansions.

3.2 was done in a few hours. Couple of dungeons Midas. Done
3.3 much the same, weeping city. Couple of dungeons. Smash Sophia done.
3.4 yet again couple of dungeons beat creator done.
3.5 new dungeons, fun scaith zurvan. Done
4.0 kept people busy a while being the expansion.
4.1 was done in couple of hours.
4.2 was done in an evening.

Every time a patch lands it can pretty much be cleared in a single day. Content just doesn't last. The fact new patches invalidate old ones only makes it worse.

The icing on the cake and also why people hate going back and doing old content is. because if we take 4.1 as an example the only thing to do for many players was rabanastre. thuse that content gets done so much because tis the only thing to do its no wonder players never want to go back.... or like now people saying deltascape queues are massive because everyone ran it to death in 4.0 was the only thing they had to do and never wants to see it again...

[Vhailor]

The largest issue with FFXIV right now is the unholy trinity of rapid gear depreciation, long grinds, and repetitive content structures. That is a recipe for what we're seeing from the player base. You can have any two of those things, and things are mostly alright; have all three of them, and there are major problems.

Eureka is a perfect example. If I knew it was a 250-hour grind (i.e. something that would take me roughly 3 months playing about 20 hours a week), but that the reward would not only be fairly high-end when I got it, but would remain that way for another few months, and would be acceptable for another three after that, I would be jumping in head first, just like I did with the boring Magian elemental staff grind in FFXI (because I knew those staves would remain great, if not BiS, for months or years).

Or, maybe Eureka is a 60-hour grind, but the weapons are mostly for Glamour. OK. I can buy into that too. Or perhaps Eureka is entirely fresh content, with interesting new mechanics beyond zerg the NM and spam monsters for dozens of hours. I'm on board.

But, that's not the scenario. We have a weapon and armour that are are barely relevant as-is, will likely be completely invalidated by the time we get them, requiring well over 100 hours of boring, repetitive grinding to get them. The unholy trinity. And it's applying to key components of FFXIV's content: the tomestone grind, Hunts, the Relic weapon, Diadem (which is already dead). It's hitting the vast bulk of what SE envisioned for mid-core content, which is a big problem for them, one they seem to be completely unaware of based on the uninspired Eureka. They very much need to reflect on what they supposedly learned from XIV 1.0, because they seem to have forgotten it. And the consequences are coming. This type of problem has a slow fuse for most people, because we're connected to FFXIV socially and mentally at this point, but that won't last forever - and it gets more difficult to reset perspectives the longer SE waits.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

To be fair, I still have quite a lot of fun in Eureka, after around 15 hours spent in it. I don't know if it's because many people are so negative, but there are people that are so much more positive as well... I don't know. Sure, the content is braindead farm, but people are rather nice in it, once you get a full party of people, and you can spend 2 hours with the same people, just treking from a zone to another, trying to spawn fates or do thing the old fashioned way... It's chill, and even though the farm is... let's say it's much more than it should probably be, I do it, not for the reward, but for the atmosphere of it.

Plus, remember that once you're e-lvl 20, you're e-lvl 20 on all your jobs, and we've already been told that lvl 20+ monsters drop more crystals than those below it... so maybe the farm isn't THAT much in the end, it's just a slow beginning, I don't know.

Either way, I'm not making this thread about Eureka, we still have so many threads around for this one to become another copy of them, what I'm saying is : Sure, the game is repetitive, sure there's little to no "fun" reward... But I think some of us might have fun playing, and chilling, not trying to achieve anything. And I think that's how the devs think, somehow. I think the way I see Eureka is the way the devs intended it to be, and intend pretty much everything to be... Thing is... I'm the minority, in all of this. Sure, the game suits me well, and I'll keep my sub active, for the RP and for Eureka, mostly, but there are many out there that will probably end their sub, or that have already done so.

I think a rework is definitely needed, but, even if the devs acknowledge that, I'm pretty sure we won't have any MAJOR change (maybe changes inside Eureka, but that's it) before 5.0. That'd already be a huge success, to be fair, seing how delusional they are... Anyway, I agree with you, even though I understand how the devs want us to see content.

[Kogasan]

I actually like Eureka. I don't understand what people are so upset with it for. If you don't like Eureka you don't have to do it. There is other content that you can do besides Eureka. So yeah give Eureka a chance it hasn't been out for more then 2 days and your already saying Square-Enix isn't paying attention to the player base. It just might be that it's not for you.

[Istaru]

yes and no,i wento there,a lot of them said that FF14 gameplay is not made for that kind of grind,some say its bad because they dont have time to talk with others,everyone is just focused to kill monsters.

I agree with sentiment. Especially about talking. That mitigated out a lot of the boredom when leveling in XI. It also gave you time to discuss things with each other and to make new friends which made it an overall positive experience for me.

FFXIV combat is very boring on its own without mechanics and such to deal with. In a party of ransoms, you are pressing the same 10-12 buttons in the same order over and over for a very long time in silence. For many people, that isn't much fun.

[NekoNova]

Without wanting to go too much into it. Because I've already made some pretty large posts with my concerns and opinions recently.

Imo it's not how quick or slow they put content out that's the problem. The problem is how long the content lasts.
I wouldn't mind 1 patch per year if that patch had enough to keep me going and keep me busy for the next 12 or 18 months.

The issue though is content just doesn't last. Except maybe expansions.

3.2 was done in a few hours. Couple of dungeons Midas. Done
3.3 much the same, weeping city. Couple of dungeons. Smash Sophia done.
3.4 yet again couple of dungeons beat creator done.
3.5 new dungeons, fun scaith zurvan. Done
4.0 kept people busy a while being the expansion.
4.1 was done in couple of hours.
4.2 was done in an evening.

Every time a patch lands it can pretty much be cleared in a single day. Content just doesn't last. The fact new patches invalidate old ones only makes it worse.

The icing on the cake and also why people hate going back and doing old content is. because if we take 4.1 as an example the only thing to do for many players was rabanastre. thuse that content gets done so much because tis the only thing to do its no wonder players never want to go back.... or like now people saying deltascape queues are massive because everyone ran it to death in 4.0 was the only thing they had to do and never wants to see it again...

There's a partial truth to that, but it again can't be applied as a general statement.
There's a lot of stuff from the previous patches I still need to do, like some of the savage modes.
Same applies to Heavensward, and ARR even.
There are things that I've never seen before, and depending on how the game goes, might never even see at all.

Yes, you can clear the MSQ in a single day in most cases, all the side content, not so much for me.
For me it really boils down to the time investment and how you play the game.

[Keridwyn]

I actually like Eureka. I don't understand what people are so upset with it for. If you don't like Eureka you don't have to do it. There is other content that you can do besides Eureka. So yeah give Eureka a chance it hasn't been out for more then 2 days and your already saying Square-Enix isn't paying attention to the player base. It just might be that it's not for you.

There's a slight fallacy with that. Eureka ties into this expansion's relic weapons an relic weapons are always a grind and EVERYONE here was prepared for that. It's nothing new. However, what we keep pointing out is that we do not like the STRUCTURE of Eureka's grind. Maybe if the currency dropped more often, maybe if we leveled up faster, maybe if different monsters required different strategies rather than 'mash keys, avoid aoes' we'd find ourselves getting the reward rush in our brains and our opinion would change.

Also, the reason a lot of people said SE didn't pay attention to the playerbase is because most of us said 'Eureka, sure I'll wait. Just don't make it Diadem 3.0'. You know what the difference between Diadem and Eureka is? I can't go find a quiet spot and fish up pteros.

[Keramory]

I have to agree, I’ve been tired of the same formula over and over for quite some time.

I definitely know I’m not the only one, as it seems the overwhelming majority are tired of it as well.

Honestly the game is horrendously shallow. Glamour and housing should not be the main goal of an mmo. As you listed gear is a pointless persuit and I’ve been fighting the same kind of end game content since 2.0

It’s a shame because coils started in the right direction... where you’d have some level of a dungeon before the fight. Now it’s just straight boss battle.

I like the attempt of the new content, but it’s sadly just as shallow in terms of another way to farm tomes. We just call it crystals now

[Kerwin]

I find the content only really good for users who have maxed all of their classes out and have nothing else to do. It's literally just filler till next patch.