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  1. #51
    Player
    Fynlar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    2,998
    Character
    Fynlar Eira
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    The FATEs (some of them, anyway) were arguably the worst part of the books, yeah. Anything that had you standing there camping where the FATE spawns because you had no idea when it would show up next... yeah, that was a low point. I would have found it more acceptable if it was something like "do 5 fates in X zone" or something instead of requiring very specific ones. Nevertheless, I did still finish all of those books, ten times for all ten weapons... so I couldn't have hated it THAT much...

    EDIT to respond to things from the future because stupid post limits.

    My point to you was 2.0 relics have no comparison to this diadem reskin, it can take 24 hrs of play time or 3 months, I am not doing a reskin on outdated content unless I have personal friends that want to do it, and atm that does not exist. I do not know why people are trying to force themselves in thinking this area is ok, what is the point in that? You shouldn't have to force your self or convince yourself something is fun. That shows there is problems with it. If something is well designed I would be willing to do it regardless what the reward is.
    It sure is a good thing I didn't say Eureka was "ok" and that I have been very upfront in stating it has problems (to the point where I've actually just hit the daily post limit for the first time, and I don't have a small amount of posts), or else people might have misinterpreted how I really felt and misattributed things to me that I never actually said. Oh wait.
    (0)
    Last edited by Fynlar; 03-15-2018 at 05:19 PM.

  2. #52
    Player
    Darrcyphfeid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    280
    Character
    Kiraine Kalivarsa
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynlar View Post
    Honestly not much different from animus books for 2.x relic, something I also enjoyed.
    Oh my god you're a masochist!

    But no, I jest. Your reasoning is solid and is more or less in line with how I feel about the XI vs Eureka as a whole. The base concept is there, but all the extra stuff that came with it isn't. That is to say, what you posted vs "It's basically the same as the Magian Trials because it wants to you kill oodles of one specific mob!"
    Or an NM. Or stuff. ...Basically Magian Trials minus any variety, I guess.
    (1)

  3. #53
    Player
    Deedsie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Garlemald
    Posts
    353
    Character
    Deedlit Blanchimont
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Fynlar, there's a familiar name I haven't seen in a while.
    (0)

  4. #54
    Player
    TaleraRistain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    5,541
    Character
    Thalia Beckford
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    I'm someone who once stayed in a Highhold Keep group back in EQ for 34 hours because it was going well. I've had to put up lfg in a shout and find a spot at one of the agreed-upon camping areas. Or wait until a party was available. Or find my replacement when I had to leave. So I'm well versed in EQ style exp grinding.

    Most of the groups I've run into don't even want to do the camp thing and just chase the NMs. So you're an incredibly low level that is pulling mobs with a party when they all go running off and leaving you to find your way among mobs 7 or 8 levels higher than you. And we don't have tools that helped with this back in EQ like Invisibility, Levitate, Mesmerize, Snare, SoW, or Charm. For groups that do exp, they plant themselves right in the middle of mobs and just aoe things to death. It's mind-numbingly boring and tedious. I left EQ because I don't want that style of MMO any longer. If the relic wasn't in Eureka, I wouldn't bother with it any further.
    (1)

  5. #55
    Player
    Vstarstruck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,128
    Character
    Beastmistress Milk
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynlar View Post
    The FATEs (some of them, anyway) were arguably the worst part of the books, yeah. Anything that had you standing there camping where the FATE spawns because you had no idea when it would show up next... yeah, that was a low point. I would have found it more acceptable if it was something like "do 5 fates in X zone" or something instead of requiring very specific ones. Nevertheless, I did still finish all of those books, ten times for all ten weapons... so I couldn't have hated it THAT much...
    1,5,20, it does not matter how many you did or i did or what the general public did. We need to be here telling them, Hey this part is really messed up please change it.

    My point to you was 2.0 relics have no comparison to this diadem reskin, it can take 24 hrs of play time or 3 months, I am not doing a reskin on outdated content unless I have personal friends that want to do it, and atm that does not exist. I do not know why people are trying to force themselves in thinking this area is ok, what is the point in that? You shouldn't have to force your self or convince yourself something is fun. That shows there is problems with it. If something is well designed I would be willing to do it regardless what the reward is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fynlar View Post
    future because stupid post limits.



    It sure is a good thing I didn't say Eureka was "ok" and that I have been very upfront in stating it has problems (to the point where I've actually just hit the daily post limit for the first time, and I don't have a small amount of posts), or else people might have misinterpreted how I really felt and misattributed things to me that I never actually said. Oh wait.
    You where suggesting it was ok because 2.0 relics where ok and you did a lot of them, you are contradicting yourself.
    (3)
    Last edited by Vstarstruck; 03-15-2018 at 05:26 PM.

  6. #56
    Player
    MirielleLavandre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    647
    Character
    Gabrielle Beausejour
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Vstarstruck View Post
    From someone that liked the pros and toughed out the cons, I really wanted to comment on this thread and hope the OP says something to these comments, along with others agreeing with the idea Eureka is like FFXI.


    .
    Hi all,
    After playing Eureka more, I have to adjust my initial post a bit. As far as being like FFXI, I stick by the idea that it is like FFXI but in only a few ways // that is, making a party, finding a camping spot, and pulling IT mobs to chain xp. In essence, it is like FFXI as far as leveling up goes - not endgame. Reflecting on what I liked most about FFXI, it was two things -- during leveling, it was the camaraderie and fun of chatting in party while grinding, and making new friends while doing so. During endgame, it was having so much to do that was varied and different, and having reachable goals that were directed and organized. I absolutely loved getting my Empyrean Armor +2 on both my WHM and NIN in Abyssea, because getting that armor was so detailed and had so many different steps and so many different NMs I needed to organize alliances for in order to get (stone, card, coin, jewel farming - almost all requiring different NMs with many different ways to spawn them, etc.).

    I agree with the people who claim, as I did, that Eureka is like FFXI, but only insofar as it is like the grind of leveling pre-cap. It also lacks the 'friend building' that FFXI had during leveling due to the nature of FF14 combat, as others have said. We can't chat in party like we did while hanging out in the Dunes or Crawlers Nest, etc. The skill spam is just too much.

    So, in essence after 3 days of release, I feel that Eureka has indeed taken the grind of FFXI leveling, but applied it to a game that lacks the sociability FFXI had and lacks the combat mechanics (slower and more methodical in FFXI, so we could chat during combat) FFXI had. It is nothing like Abyssea capped AF (Empyrean) farming, or even atma farming. I loved atma farming, too, as it took organization and also had so many different atma to attain and/or help others get [atma of Razed Ruins, etc. - or even atma of the apocalypse].

    Eureka is fine for those who need a little taste of the FFXI leveling grind -- but I have to agree with others that it took the 'worst' aspect of FFXI and applied it erroneously to FF14.
    (6)

  7. #57
    Player
    TarynH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    418
    Character
    Taryn Holigard
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by KaplanHomahru View Post
    But answer me this: If you're going to take some content from FFXI and put it into FFXIV, why WHY would you take the most boring thing (exp / merit parties)? Why not something engaging? Any of the end game type fights? Instead of just literally pull a mob, kill and repeat until you see a FATE?
    Because contrary to nostalgic belief, there really wasn't anything engaging beyond that in FFXI. It all had a base system with a fresh coat of paint.

    Dynamis - Pull some mobs and kill them for random drops and currency, until you get to a "NM"
    Besieged - Pull a mob off to the side and kill it.
    Campaign - Pull a mob off to the side and kill it.
    Sky - Pull mobs and farm them until a NM spawns. Kill NM for KI and spawn another NM.
    Land Kings - Wait around and hope you don't get beaten by a claim bot. Farm mobs if you get bored.
    Overworld NMs - Wait, or sometimes sit around and farm the local mobs until it spawns.
    Sea - Farm mobs until you get items. Spawn other mobs to get items.
    Limbus - Farm mobs until you get items.
    Skirmish - Kill mobs until you reach objectives.
    Delve - Kill mobs until you reach the NM.
    Salvage - Farm mobs until something happens.
    Nyzul - Farm mobs and sometimes light lamps until you reach NM.
    Exp. Parties - Pull mobs and kill them for experience.
    Abyssea - Farm mobs.
    WoE - Farm mobs until you get the NM.
    FoV/RoE - Farm mobs (usually).
    Promyvions - Sneak around, or kill mobs, until you reach a gate where you kill mobs to go up to another floor where you kill mobs. Repeat until you reach the NM.
    Overworld Areas - Sneak around, or kill mobs until you get where you're going.

    Yes, it looks simplistic when you reduce it all down to that. Not saying it was bad. Some things had a different nuance to make them fresh at the time. It just wasn't the super awesome dynamic content people are remembering. It was just different from FFXIV. It was built differently, and meant to be played differently. I personally had more time back then, so I didn't mind the slow nature of FFXI as much. I had more patience to sit and wait for a monster to turn around before running past it.

    And that's the issue here. FFXI was/is a slow game. That is the fatal flaw with Eureka. FFXIV is not built to be played slow. Grinding out mobs on FFXI was mostly letting your job auto-attack and build up TP; sometimes throwing out a debuff/buff. Grinding on FFXIV, however, will eventually give you carpal tunnel syndrome. Just reaching chain 30 a couple of times made my fingers hurt. You can hardly even chat in a smaller group, or you risk losing your chain. Even on FFXI you could talk between pulls.

    The NMs in Eureka are seizure-inducing zerg fests. With absolutely no filters on the massive amount of flashing lights. For whatever reason, none of the filters for other people seem to work in there. You can't even see the NM you are fighting, because it is always covered in white light.

    Large party groups are migraine-inducing zerg fests, that sometimes camp right next to you, and jack your kills. In FFXI, nobody could even touch your claimed mob, unless you called for help.

    The aggro system is completely random. Sometimes you can run around a mob in circles and it completely ignores you. Yet if you stand still and do nothing they immediately aggro you. Sometimes Ninja's Hide works, and sometimes it doesn't (with the same mob.) It's very hard to determine what typical mob behavior is going to be. Even FFXI had some ground rules for that.

    So when people say Eureka is like FFXI, they are both right and wrong at the same time. The base systems are like FFXI; you sneak around dangerous mobs, get to a camp and grind, and the quests give you vague hints. However, the entirety of Eureka feels like FFXIV trying hard to be like FFXI, and failing. It simply doesn't work. After two days, I'm already tired of trying to figure it out, let alone grind it all out.

    I also have concerns about what happens when everyone is level 20 and ends up camping in the same spots. That's going to be a whole lot of fun.
    (3)
    I used to be an adventurer, but then my ping increased.

  8. #58
    Player
    Vstarstruck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,128
    Character
    Beastmistress Milk
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre View Post
    Hi all,
    After playing Eureka more, I have to adjust my initial post a bit. As far as being like FFXI, I stick by the idea that it is like FFXI but in only a few ways // that is, making a party, finding a camping spot, and pulling IT mobs to chain xp. In essence, it is like FFXI as far as leveling up goes - not endgame. Reflecting on what I liked mostabout FFXI, it was two things -- during leveling, it was the camaraderie and fun of chatting in party while grinding, and making new friends while doing so. During endgame, it was having so much to do that was varied and different, and having reachable goals that were directed and organized. I absolutely loved getting my Empyrean Armor +2 on both my WHM and NIN in Abyssea, because getting that armor was so detailed and had so many different steps and so many different NMs I needed to organize alliances for in order to get (stone, card, coin, jewel farming - almost all requiring different NMs with many different ways to spawn them, etc.).

    I agree with the people who claim, as I did, that Eureka is like FFXI, but only insofar as it is like the grind of leveling pre-cap. It also lacks the 'friend building' that FFXI had during leveling due to the nature of FF14 combat, as others have said. We can't chat in party like we did while hanging out in the Dunes or Crawlers Nest, etc. The skill spam is just too much.

    So, in essence after 3 days of release, I feel that Eureka has indeed taken the grind of FFXI leveling, but applied it to a game that lacks the sociability FFXI had and lacks the combat mechanics (slower and more methodical in FFXI, so we could chat during combat) FFXI had. It is nothing like Abyssea capped AF (Empyrean) farming, or even atma farming. I loved atma farming, too, as it took organization and also had so many different atma to attain and/or help others get [atma of Razed Ruins, etc. - or even atma of the apocalypse].

    Eureka is fine for those who need a little taste of the FFXI leveling grind -- but I have to agree with others that it took the 'worst' aspect of FFXI and applied it erroneously to FF14.
    You do not do that in Eureka, its abyssea exp, rush in, aoe monsters.
    (1)
    Last edited by Vstarstruck; 03-15-2018 at 11:52 PM.

  9. #59
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynlar View Post
    Hi, here's one.
    Yeah, let's find two more people and we could make a light party in Eureka !

    To expand on that, I loved Magian Trials because they were different of everything XI did before. For once, rewards were not random, and people actually helped each other when a notorious monster spawned, instead or simply rushing to be the first one to kill.

    Frankly, I'm interested in Eureka for the simple fact that it works differently than the usual content, and I wanted some change of pace for a long time. I think FFXIV need something a little less casual friendly, because some people like this type of content. Maybe they're masochist, yeah, but they're still XIV player nonetheless, and would like content for their personality too.
    (1)

  10. #60
    Player
    Connor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    2,166
    Character
    Connor Whelan
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    As someone who fairly enjoyed XI but is very disappointed in Eureka, I think I can explain why some (or at least I) used the comparison and why it feels different.

    Eureka is evidently based on an XI-style MMO where essentially you grind mobs to pop more mobs that might drop something you want.

    In XI, you had more options on what role you want to take in the party (dps, healing, buffs, debuffs, tanking, a mix of any of the above) and a variety of options on what to do during the fighting. Try and hit the enemy’s elemental weaknesses, do skillchains (depending on which expansion you were in), Stun dangerous attacks, focus on crowd control, tank the mobs, use dps focused buffs (haste, Adloquium for tp regen, etc), utility buffs (Bard songs, Regens, resistance barrier spells, Refresh), debuffs to lower enemy damage and defenses, or for crowd control like paralyse or sleep.

    When these abilities do exist in FFXIV, they’re on very long cooldowns that can’t be manipulated, and generally have a significantly lessened effect on the battle due to balancing.

    In a game based on this style of content, you need to have a deep and engaging battle system that’s multifaceted enough that even grinding base mobs can become interesting and fun.

    XIV doesn’t generally feature enemy debuffs that can turn the tide of battle, nor buffs that aren’t in a cooldown, nor crowd control spells that have an effect on the enemies for more than a few seconds. The battle system is largely supplemented by the fact that a majority (if not all) are oriented around dps-checks. Buffs, debuffs, crowd control can be easily done away with when every battle is a check of how much damage you can do in a limited period of time. Obviously it would be tedious if every normal overworld mob could one-shot you if you didn’t do enough damage in time, so it doesn’t apply to them. This means that the main driving force behind ffxiv’s battle system, beating the dps check, is absent. So when you’re grinding mobs in an area like this, without any mechanics to accompany the battle system, it ends up feeling dry.
    (3)
    Last edited by Connor; 03-16-2018 at 04:35 AM.

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