Eureka - from a FFXI point of view

[Darrcyphfeid]

Frankly, it's not that different from the early magian trials in XI.

Oh Jesus Christ, if the Magian Trials are the standard by which we're judging content now we should just shut the entire game down. I've never met a single person that enjoyed that, be it the elemental staves or the mob family slaying or the finishing blow with X weaponskill. And the people doing that stuff were super dedicated to XI.

As for Dynamis, considering any mobs could drop ancient currencies, the first stage of the relic wasn't that involving, since you didn't have to "win" the Dynamis.

And yet, even now, it's an incredibly long grind to amass either the currency directly or the Gil to afford it. If you brush aside the proc system and the fact that Dynamis did much more than simply have us chain kill mobs for a singular purpose - then and now - then sure, you can directly compare Dynamis and Eureka. But that's why Eureka isn't appealing to a lot of us to begin with.

And it's far too early to judge how it will expand in subsequent .5 patches

Nah, to hell with that. We've waited more than a year and a half for Eureka to released, and what we have now is what gets judged. The development team doesn't get, doesn't deserve, any optimism for what they may or may not fix about this going forward. As-is, right now, Eureka will be judged by how it treats us from lv1 through lv12. Maybe lv20 is better. Maybe it's not. But 90% of the people inside Eureka right now will never reach lv20 so whether those lv23~25 mobs drop amazing amounts of loot is meaningless.

Sorry but "tomestones, tomestones, tomestones, lights, tomestones, tomestones, lights" is hardly varied at all, when you think about it. That's why my favorite stage of Anima was when you had to gather all the mysterious items and the specialist crafter items...that all of people found horribly grindy.

Hey now, I'm not saying that XIV's repetitive treadmill is good. Because it's complete dogshit and I'm unsubbing Friday in large part because of that all by itself. But that doesn't excuse this either.

And yes, the Relics were always at their best when they had some thought put into them. I'd argue that fighting the HM Primal trio in ARR as well as Hydra and Chimera are better things to highlight, though.

[Fawkes]

After getting to play it I don't think it's that bad. It doesn't seem like it will be too awful to grind, and they'll likely nerf the number of crystals required in the future.

Although, I'm currently subscribed to FFXI, so my opinion may be somewhat terrible.

[Keramory]

For those saying “you reap what you sow” from people requesting more ffxi play styles... no one, and I mean no one, asked for the horrific mindless grind fest that this abomination provides.

Ffxi had its problems, and they took one of them and pumped it full of steroids, all while beautifully cutting away some of the positive aspects ffxi grinding did have (as many pointed out). That’s what this content is.

Legit think this was dev sarcasm to our requests lol

[stardrifter]

I like it - even if I did get hard by the rewind bug

[Binahel]

as many people already pointed out, this content for now it's just the most basic and mindless part of FFXI without anything else.
FFXIV has completely different combat system that add only stress to the grind, a relatively (albeit well done) small area with nothing interesting in it so far and no LFG system - you must shout like in Jeuno 2008.

I am a mega FFXI faboy, I bought FFXIV 1.0 hoping it was a clone of FFXI... so i really fail to understand exactly what they wanted to put into this content that would make someone like me reminiscent of the old days.
All we have are the problems we had back in time in the Valkrum Dunes, without the updates the FFXI team developed to coutner them.

I do not understand.

[Mahri]

In FFXI you dealt with the tedium by actually conversing with party members, since the shortest ability cooldown was like 30 seconds, with the average being 1-3 minutes. (Note: This is actually why you remember it fondly. Early MMOs were basically chatrooms with HP.)

In FFXIV you can't do that, since constant input is needed. So, it manages to be both tedious and a huge hassle.

This is why an attempt to recapture FFXI in FFXIV is fundamentally flawed and doomed.

[Alaray]

I've done this content in an 8 person party of FC friends, and other friends. The voip made it tolerable.

I've also done this content completely solo for a level.

The content isn't hard. It's easy. Extremely easy. It's boring. It's mind numbing. There's literally nothing in this entire piece of delayed content except for killing mobs. The magia board feels like an after thought -- you set it once, you're done, until you move on. You don't use it to diminish certain attacks, stances, or anything like that.

As a DRK at level 4, I pulled five level 4 mobs and killed them all. It took time, I got my chain going. But it wasn't fun. It wasn't difficult, it was just going through the motions.

It's just mob grinding. For very little reward.

There's no overworld dungeons. There's no sense of exploration to figure out the lore of the area, there are no interesting nooks and crannies to go find.

It's mob training.

I remember mob training from other games, it was never, on its own, fun. It's never been "fun" content. What made it fun was the social aspect, that's it.

As content, on it's own, it's boring, dull, easy, unexciting, mind numbing, and long for very little to gain. Especially when NM's are the only real source of actual rewards from killing everything, and even then, they're just Fate Bosses. I've never encountered a "fun" Fate Boss.

It's a nostalgia piece because of the social memories people have doing it, but that doesn't mean the actual content is good or fun when the only thing that can make it fun is shit talking it in VOIP while doing it.

They could have done a lot with it, there's a metric shitton of crap they could have done with it.

But they did nothing with it.

You can't even change your glamour in it.

You can't even queue for other duties while doing it.

You can't form a PF in the zone itself.

[Vstarstruck]

From someone that liked the pros and toughed out the cons, I really wanted to comment on this thread and hope the OP says something to these comments, along with others agreeing with the idea Eureka is like FFXI.

That just goes against the ethos of FFXIV though. The purpose of the game is to be semi casual with the acknowledgement that most people are adults with responsibilities and don\\'t have the time to grind and farm endlessly to unlock x, y and z.

If that was released, there would be endless uproar of how the content wasn\\'t accessible and was too grindy. It\\'s a delicate balance that no company will meet. As they say, you can\\'t please everybody all the time.

So your saying Eureka goes against FFXIV's Etos? It is too much time for gaining nothing outside glam. At the week of release is the same week causal play get access to an i360 weapon for one class. That is 10 mins of work over the course of 7 weeks. Smashing one button hours on end is not even what FFXI was about. You got to talk, plan, and engage different feeling content. Like others stated, FFXI endgame did not require a lot of time in one sitting outside old Dynamis. Then when people post like 77 crystal drops for the course of 6 hours guess what? that even beats old Dynamis and old Dynamis was 2-4 hours every THREE DAYS to simply get a drop for your gear.

The only thing this grind can compare to in FFXI is the trials of the magians and even then, it depends on what one you are comparing it to. Outside the trials of the magians NOTHING is this big of a grind in ffxi, not even old exp rates to get your first job to 75. If we go there, getting your first job to 75 was explore experience as well, you explored a huge world, fought a verity of different things, even if crabs was a common pick, you still had to know how to deal with undead spawns, move camps at night, magic aggro, know how to run to a good exp camp, make sure people had spells on some things like dispel or erase. Be on your toes with CC like sleep, no one does that in FFXIV, in ffxiv all you are doing is remaking the abyessa experience and I guarantee you, those that ask for ffxiv concepts was not asking for abyseaa leveling.

I did some math on this grind, and here's what I came up with:

If you farmed 50 crystals every day until the end, it'd take just over 3 months to finish an entire relic set, possibly longer entirely dependent on RNG. That's counting both crystal types I believe. The time frame...not really an issue. I don't think it is for most people, considering how many have done past relic grinds. The problem is entirely in how it's being handled. Grinding mobs for 3 straight months (possibly longer) and hitting up an occasional fate which may or may not spawn for awhile isn't my idea of fun, and I don't think it's fun for many other people either. The grind itself is a non issue, it's how it's being handled where people are rightfully frustrated with.

You don't seem to fully grasp the sheer scale of this current grind compared to past ones in THIS game. And you should considering you're an XI and XIV player. Time and effort are not equal to the rewards being given.

FFXIV is handholding. You are handheld to a single spot and told kill things for 24+ hours in mindless aoe ability spam. You misused what handholding means. The time frame is a BIG issue in this game because in 3 months you go though a tier or 2 in ilevels, and the thing is, the final forms at the moment are already outdated in comparasion of current gear, that is easy to get. Penta meld crafted or current tomes put way less work and time invesment, even when you consider doing the treadmill again vs grind of these stages +future upgrades.

With that out of the way...
Eureka gives concepts on long grinds, like pre-Treasures of Aht Urhgan exp rates. We are comparing a game that was built having you to be sociable, and explore different sites for experience points to a game that wants to be built on hand me everything. NOTHING about Eureka is like FFXI except the concepts that went into pre-Treasures of Aht Urhgan exp rates and some trials of the magians. All Eureka gave us is FFXI's abyseaa leveling. Not even the other concepts of abyseaa is like this diadem 3.0 situation.

But the thing is, we are trying to compare side ENDGAME content to old MMORPG exp styles. All the endgame I know does not come CLOSE to being Eureka, at least not in ffxi, there was a ton of different content to do, not spend time waiting for something to be given to you.

[MirielleLavandre]

From someone that liked the pros and toughed out the cons, I really wanted to comment on this thread and hope the OP says something to these comments, along with others agreeing with the idea Eureka is like FFXI.


.

Hi all,
After playing Eureka more, I have to adjust my initial post a bit. As far as being like FFXI, I stick by the idea that it is like FFXI but in only a few ways // that is, making a party, finding a camping spot, and pulling IT mobs to chain xp. In essence, it is like FFXI as far as leveling up goes - not endgame. Reflecting on what I liked most about FFXI, it was two things -- during leveling, it was the camaraderie and fun of chatting in party while grinding, and making new friends while doing so. During endgame, it was having so much to do that was varied and different, and having reachable goals that were directed and organized. I absolutely loved getting my Empyrean Armor +2 on both my WHM and NIN in Abyssea, because getting that armor was so detailed and had so many different steps and so many different NMs I needed to organize alliances for in order to get (stone, card, coin, jewel farming - almost all requiring different NMs with many different ways to spawn them, etc.).

I agree with the people who claim, as I did, that Eureka is like FFXI, but only insofar as it is like the grind of leveling pre-cap. It also lacks the 'friend building' that FFXI had during leveling due to the nature of FF14 combat, as others have said. We can't chat in party like we did while hanging out in the Dunes or Crawlers Nest, etc. The skill spam is just too much.

So, in essence after 3 days of release, I feel that Eureka has indeed taken the grind of FFXI leveling, but applied it to a game that lacks the sociability FFXI had and lacks the combat mechanics (slower and more methodical in FFXI, so we could chat during combat) FFXI had. It is nothing like Abyssea capped AF (Empyrean) farming, or even atma farming. I loved atma farming, too, as it took organization and also had so many different atma to attain and/or help others get [atma of Razed Ruins, etc. - or even atma of the apocalypse].

Eureka is fine for those who need a little taste of the FFXI leveling grind -- but I have to agree with others that it took the 'worst' aspect of FFXI and applied it erroneously to FF14.

[Vstarstruck]

Hi all,
After playing Eureka more, I have to adjust my initial post a bit. As far as being like FFXI, I stick by the idea that it is like FFXI but in only a few ways // that is, making a party, finding a camping spot, and pulling IT mobs to chain xp. In essence, it is like FFXI as far as leveling up goes - not endgame. Reflecting on what I liked mostabout FFXI, it was two things -- during leveling, it was the camaraderie and fun of chatting in party while grinding, and making new friends while doing so. During endgame, it was having so much to do that was varied and different, and having reachable goals that were directed and organized. I absolutely loved getting my Empyrean Armor +2 on both my WHM and NIN in Abyssea, because getting that armor was so detailed and had so many different steps and so many different NMs I needed to organize alliances for in order to get (stone, card, coin, jewel farming - almost all requiring different NMs with many different ways to spawn them, etc.).

I agree with the people who claim, as I did, that Eureka is like FFXI, but only insofar as it is like the grind of leveling pre-cap. It also lacks the 'friend building' that FFXI had during leveling due to the nature of FF14 combat, as others have said. We can't chat in party like we did while hanging out in the Dunes or Crawlers Nest, etc. The skill spam is just too much.

So, in essence after 3 days of release, I feel that Eureka has indeed taken the grind of FFXI leveling, but applied it to a game that lacks the sociability FFXI had and lacks the combat mechanics (slower and more methodical in FFXI, so we could chat during combat) FFXI had. It is nothing like Abyssea capped AF (Empyrean) farming, or even atma farming. I loved atma farming, too, as it took organization and also had so many different atma to attain and/or help others get [atma of Razed Ruins, etc. - or even atma of the apocalypse].

Eureka is fine for those who need a little taste of the FFXI leveling grind -- but I have to agree with others that it took the 'worst' aspect of FFXI and applied it erroneously to FF14.

You do not do that in Eureka, its abyssea exp, rush in, aoe monsters.