Lily a little unnecessary?

[AlphaSonic]

I feel like they made Lilies as a PvP thing then just tacked it onto PvE content. Lilies are great in PvP when the entire content revolves around spike damage and highly unpredictable damage so Cure, Cure II, and CDR start to become quite a thing to just help the WHM keep up with the explosiveness of the content.

I'm not holding my breath for any changes but it would be nice to see something for 4.4 leading up to the new raid tier.

Well it also helps that lilies can reduce the CD of an ability up to 50% in PvP and Benediction is also affected. It's quite noticeable a 60 second reduction CD.

[Adeacia]

I completely ignore lillies to the point where I forget they even exist. That's how much they matter to me.

I never turned off the gauge for whatever reason though. I should probably do that.

[KisaiTenshi]

The lilies, it's in a sense, an automatic Aetherflow-like function now. As originally designed they were RNG proc's. Removing the RNG was the right thing, but they should have learned from Arcanist/SCH/SMN Aetherflow that locking skills or changing their power behind a second manual mechanic only leads to that mechanic being ignored or fumbled by players who are too busy to look at this indicator, as was the case with Cleric Stance.

So all the lily gauge does is offer an indicator that you're actually healing, and not just wasting healing casts that result in nothing.

Where the Lily system was changed more from release was how Plenary Indulgence, wound up being made less useful, but now always usable.

In 4.05

Plenary Indulgence
Party members will no longer be granted a Confession when HP is restored via Cure and Cure II. They will instead be granted a Confession when HP is restored via Medica, Medica II, or Cure III.
The chance of granting party members a Confession has been increased from 20% to 100%.
The duration of the Confession has been reduced from 30 to 10 seconds.
Healing potency based on the number of stacks of Confession has been reduced from 400 for one stack, 500 for two stacks, and 600 for three stacks to 150 for one stack, 300 for two stacks, and 450 for three stacks.
Recast time increased from 15 to 60 seconds.
Confession stacks will now also be granted to the player casting Medica, Medica II, or Cure III.

So from the notes, you get the impression that PI was probably being ignored completely, because it was only creating stacks for one player at the time. I get what their thought process was behind this (eg player is using cure on the tanks, thus the confession stack should always be up, thus every third cure could be PI) but since it's a level 70 skill, there's little content for which it's available. Thus it's asking players to change their strategy just for level 70 content. The way it's setup now actually discourages overhealing by using Medica/Medica II/Cure III as well, since if you fumble it no stacks are given. However the recast time and confession stacks now make it even less likely to have the conditions to be used, since the confession stacks are shorter than the recast time.

If you look in the 4.2 patch notes:

Divine Benison
Healing Lily requirement has been removed.
* The trait Secret of the Lily will still consume healing lilies upon the use of Divine Benison, shortening its cast time.
* Updated 02/01/2018 2:00 a.m. (PST)

So as it stands right now Plenary Indulgence ends up being an additional "free" medica cast, assuming you notice it in the 10 second window it's available. Most of the time it's not available because the confession stacks drop off too quickly, because players only have the confession stack from being healed immediately before hand.

I still don't see why SE thought RNG based skills would be embraced. For a healer, there should be no RNG aspect to healing.

[Eloah]

OMG, this thread scared me a sec, you really should change the title if you can. You meant Lilies, as in the WHM mechanic. Lily, is the faerie. I'm sure a lot of SCH clicked on this thread ready to question why, lol

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

OMG, this thread scared me a sec, you really should change the title if you can. You meant Lilies, as in the WHM mechanic. Lily, is the faerie. I'm sure a lot of SCH clicked on this thread ready to question why, lol

LOL! i didn't think about that. Lily is the one that appears while questing right? if i recall correctly, the player summons either Eos or Selene.

i tried to change the topic title, but it seems to only be reflected after entering the thread. oh wells. :/

[Eloah]

LOL! i didn't think about that. Lily is the one that appears while questing right? if i recall correctly, the player summons either Eos or Selene.

i tried to change the topic title, but it seems to only be reflected after entering the thread. oh wells. :/

Lily is the faerie in general, Eos and Selene are two sides of her. Think of Eos like Diurnal Sect and Selene like Nocturnal Sect. For non SCHs, and some SCHs too, it can be a bit confusing, but SCHs only have one summon. In the SCH quests she tends to use the Eos form moreso though. The Encyclopedia Eorzea explains this in the SCH section.

[VanilleFang]

EDIT: This is meant to be what to do after you are raised.


If you have Lucid or Thin Air avaliable, you pop one or both and your MP should be fine.

If you have Assize you should use it as soon as possible, trying to get as much healing out of it as you can. Using 3 Cures and then casting Assize is usually a waste of GCDs and MP. A 20% CD reduction on Assize is 12 seconds, sure, but you would have to spend ~7.5 seconds priming it, effectively only reducing the CD by ~4.5 seconds.

But let's say you don't have any of the three above abilities ready, what should you do? I, personally, always drop a Tetra or Bene (if avaliable) on myself first. If those aren't ready then I'll use Cure II. Next I check to see if the tank has Regen, if not I cast it along with Divine Benison to be safe. At this point I see how many others need healing. Using oGCDs, Medicas, and the occasional Cure II I can easily keep everyone up.

And remember, this is excluding the possibility of you having another healer with you, and/or a caster/ranged who can give you MP.

[basketofseals]

Why prime 3 Lilies to use Assize when you can just use Assize normally? Especially if you just got rezed and need MP (and maybe help heal the party)?
If you're priming all 3 Lilies before every ability effected by them, then you're just over-healing and wasting MP.
Or are you holding on to the abilities, waiting til you get enough Lilies? That's just adding extra stress for yourself.

Since Assize should be used on cooldown, so I don't think too much of an assumption that you have plenty of time to build lilies in the meantime. It might not seem like much, and in some cases it might not even matter at all, but if you're about to head into a heavy AoE phase like the Gaurdian's second add, then having your assize up 12 seconds earlier can make a difference.

You're going to have to heal sometime, and you shouldn't be cure 2ing at such a low mana level. It's not such an unusual thing to build a lily here and there. Just instead of waiting for the tank to get low and then burst him up with CDs, just throw in an extra cure or two right before assize comes up. Just avoid accidentally blowing them on a benison or something, that's all. I'm not advocating for sitting there farming for lillies for every CD. Cure 1 is the exact same mana as Stone 4 after all.

If you have Lucid or Thin Air avaliable, you pop one or both and your MP should be fine.

...

And remember, this is excluding the possibility of you having another healer with you, and/or a caster/ranged who can give you MP.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Lucid Dreaming and Thin Air should be used on CD. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that it would not be available in this circumstance. Mana batteries are certainly nice, but there's no guarantee those abilities are also not on cooldown, or even if you have those jobs in your raid. Isn't the common application of Tactician to extend Foe's Requiem use?

Mana shift would do the job sufficiently, but I find players rather reticent to use it. Should they even take it? Apocatastasis, Addle, Diversion, Lucid Dreaming, and Swiftcast all have very useful and strategic applications. It's your opinion on whether you should put a little added burden on the group to carry recovery tools. Personally I think you should, but not all would agree.

[VanilleFang]

snip.

I'm a tad confused. My post was built on hypothetical, and listed multiple scenarios. Sometimes you can forget to use a CD, so it might be up. Sometimes your raise aligns with a CD coming off CD. Sometimes you have multiple CDs avaliable. Sometimes you don't have any CDs.

My point was that using Cure I is hardly ever an efficient use of your GCD. Even with low MP you have other tools that can help you heal through until you get you MP back up. Why would I use 3 Cures if I could instead use Regen and Divine Benison?

[basketofseals]

I'm a tad confused. My post was built on hypothetical, and listed multiple scenarios. Sometimes you can forget to use a CD, so it might be up. Sometimes your raise aligns with a CD coming off CD. Sometimes you have multiple CDs avaliable. Sometimes you don't have any CDs.

My point was that using Cure I is hardly ever an efficient use of your GCD. Even with low MP you have other tools that can help you heal through until you get you MP back up. Why would I use 3 Cures if I could instead use Regen and Divine Benison?

Hmm, perhaps it's on my co-healers then? I'm staticless, so communication is low between healers. SCHs work fine between faerie and their extremely available aetherflow CDs, but I find just regen/benison to not be sufficient when paired with AST, especially if there's incoming mechanics going on.

I apologize for skipping over you hypothetical earlier, but I can address it now.

If you have Assize you should use it as soon as possible, trying to get as much healing out of it as you can. Using 3 Cures and then casting Assize is usually a waste of GCDs and MP. A 20% CD reduction on Assize is 12 seconds, sure, but you would have to spend ~7.5 seconds priming it, effectively only reducing the CD by ~4.5 seconds.

I don't really understand where this is coming from. I'm not trying to say grabbing 3 lilies is efficient, but the goal in my scenario is to just tread water in order to have the mana for upcoming mechanics. If you know that there won't be much incoming damage soon, but if you know 3 back to back raid wide AoEs coming up in less a minute and your Thin Air and Lucid are out of reach, then you'll want that extra mana available to you.