Level 50+ dungeons can be challenging

[KaivaC]

Apparently paying attention to more than hitting buttons to attack is too hard though, haven't you heard?

Lol. Let's be honest, asking anything in the leveling dungeons is somethings akin to the worst insult in the world.

Try going into the lvl50 dungeons at the ilvl they had when they first launched, not the ilvl we have now. Different experience, eh?

But I wasn't talking about the level 50 dungeons...I was talking about 51+ dungeons, which start with the Dusk Vigil.

[Fynlar]

well putting regen while the tank is gathering mobs is a Wow induced thing for sure imho

Or, you know, a FFXI thing, considering "over time" effects did not affect enmity at all there (aside from initial application, like anything else)

[FoxyAreku]

These are pretty much the easiest dungeons in the genre, not sure what you mean.

[KaivaC]

Honestly I hope they go and make savage extremely hard next tier, with the last fight being ultimate status. Too many ppl complaining about easy stuff when they really would get their butt kicked if it got any harder

What is your dysfunction? Whenever someone says something is easy, you aren't too far away. What is the deal?

[RiyahArp]

What is your dysfunction? Whenever someone says something is easy, you aren't too far away. What is the deal?

Oh, because OP is right. The dungeons aren't hard, but aren't entirely easy compared to other MMOs. And of course, people have to say opposite, because we can't even budge an inch on how painfully easy everything in this game due to gamer culture. So yet again, the forum must get together and express their hardcore bonafides.

[KaivaC]

Oh, because OP is right. The dungeons aren't hard, but aren't entirely easy compared to other MMOs. And of course, people have to say opposite, because we can't even budge an inch on how painfully easy everything in this game due to gamer culture. So yet again, the forum must get together and express their hardcore bonafides.

If the devs continued their dungeon trend as they did with the ARR dungeons, we probably wouldn't even be in this boat. Honestly, it would probably be players crying for nerfs if the dungeons kept getting challenging. In some ways, I think some other MMOs might've done their difficulty progression better. It's something Yoshi could definitely start pulling from, as he likes to draw inspiration from other games anyways.

[RiyahArp]

If the devs continued their dungeon trend as they did with the ARR dungeons, we probably wouldn't even be in this boat.

I think HW's difficulty was in its rotations. I doubt you'd like to do savage needing to toggle clerics, for example. The rotations they had were punishing, forced players to stay in place, and required high skill or you lost significant DPS. If you added hard dungeons to that, you'd have the casual equivalent of HW's first two raids. The difficulty was reflected in the moveset for HW's new classes; all of them were more complex than the ARR jobs, at least at launch, where SB's new jobs are simpler. And the ARR jobs were harder in HW too; BRD and BLM in particular.

I mean, Neverreap was loathed, and it wasn't hard per se, just annoying because HW rotations were so very fragile DPS couldn't adapt. It would have been funny to see actual hard dungeons then.

[KaivaC]

I think HW's difficulty was in its rotations. I doubt you'd like to do savage needing to toggle clerics, for example. The rotations they had were punishing, forced players to stay in place, and required high skill or you lost significant DPS. If you added hard dungeons to that, you'd have the casual equivalent of HW's first two raids. The difficulty was reflected in the moveset for HW's new classes; all of them were more complex than the ARR jobs, at least at launch, where SB's new jobs are simpler. And the ARR jobs were harder in HW too; BRD and BLM in particular.

I wouldn't know...I was a monk for 3.5 and most of 3.56 before switched to DRK. I did play around a little with WHM...cleric stancing didn't seem too hard, but then again, I wasn't at the point where I could run Alex Savage, though I got close right before SB dropped.

[Darrcyphfeid]

I killed quite a few friends when I started learning how to heal in HW. Misclicking or mistiming Cleric's Stance would usually result in a pretty hilarious couple of seconds of panicking since you couldn't immediately turn it back off and until it was gone your heals would make you cry.

Barring notable examples like BLM (Enochian was horrible) and MCH (pumping everything into Wildfire/Mildfire), though, I didn't personally find any of the HW rotations to be particularly unwieldy. They took more effort - if not an actual community-made guide - compared to their lv50 incarnations, but that's sort of the point of the dungeons to begin with: Casual content used to improve.

On the actual subject of the thread: I more or less despise every dungeon after Aurum Vale save The Vault by virtue of them essentially throwing out all of the lessons taught from Haukke Manor through Aurum Vale. Precision pulling, watching for roaming mobs, prioritizing dangerous monsters (for the most part)? They don't mean anything for lv50 and lv60+ dungeons. Even SB's leveling dungeons didn't bother; Dusk Vigil has a pretty gnarly stat scale that frequently caught tanks off-guard, whereas Sirensong Sea was just "yeah sure, pull whatever like usual." It was disappointing. /oldmanyellsatsky

[RiyahArp]

That's not really improving, that's putting up fake difficulty through making the interface harder. If anything I think the HW rotations were too brittle to enable any improvement; something like byakko ex would have been a nightmare with the HW set. All the boss and player movement would have broken buffs left and right with a much higher threshold of player skill. As for jobs, I remember DRG especially because I couldn't even fit all my abilities on a full 24 slot crossbar; there were so many dps up buffs that it was absurd. It's been years though. I actually mained WHM in HW precisely because it was one of the easiest classes in that expansion.