Dev blog: New Feast rewards

[zuzu-bq]

See, I might agree if this applied to other content. Savage mounts aren't exclusive, and become easier the longer you wait. Basically, they do this not to reward PvPers but to desperately beg people to play PvP.

Please people, stop doing this comparison. Savage mounts can be obtained at any time.

[Levy9]

See, I might agree if this applied to other content. Savage mounts aren't exclusive, and become easier the longer you wait. Basically, they do this not to reward PvPers but to desperately beg people to play PvP.

Should the unique trophy reward for the number 1 player at the end of the season be given away to everyone at a later date? It's an exclusive item, so it should be in violation of your rule. Or perhaps rewards take on a different connotation within the context of an actual competition? As a compromise, I wouldn't mind if they gave out reskinned versions of the top 100 rewards at a later date in exchange for a decent sum of wolf collars.

I think that the top 100 see their prize as a trophy of sorts rather than just a typical reward that doesn't involve competition. At least the original colors should stay exclusive to those who actually earned them as a trophy for the competitive season. Otherwise, you may as well give the number 1 trophy away as well. That's ultimately what the top 100 rewards are - trophies. The exclusivity of the item proves season placement. It's just that in a videogame, you get to be a lot more creative with how you design a trophy.

[DracotheDragon]

oh hey a thing i will never see in game, at all.


heres a thought, why not add them to achievement vendor after a few patches, with a recolour. that way pvp can have this exclusive mount for a while, then everyone can enjoy things no-one uses anymore.

and before anyone complains about losing exclusive mounts, Fat Chocobo, gryphon, Coeurl and the mog-hat would like a word hell give the pvp exclusive one a special lighting effect, or make the normal one green or purple a colour the pvp exclusives don't have,

i mean wasn't there meant to be a third coloured hell hound mount and armoured one shown off that was meant for other means to acquire.

[Crescents]

heres a thought, why not add them to achievement vendor after a few patches,.

Or maybe not. I dont see why you should be able to buy something for tokens that people had to compete for why bother competing at all if they'll just give it to you anyway. You wont see that happen as hard as SE is trying to make feast into an Esport.
Instead of just giving away something that people worked hard for why not add rewards like these to be something you could buy with wolf collars you know the things you get as a consolation prize for actually competing?

Making it more obtainable than 100 people ever seems to be a good idea but the idea that someone could be walking around with the lone wolf coat without EVER setting foot in PvP? its ridiculous things like this are a status symbol the same way meteor survivor marks are do you think we should put those in the achievement shop as well?

[Aviars]

oh hey a thing i will never see in game, at all.


heres a thought, why not add them to achievement vendor after a few patches, with a recolour. that way pvp can have this exclusive mount for a while, then everyone can enjoy things no-one uses anymore.

and before anyone complains about losing exclusive mounts, Fat Chocobo, gryphon, Coeurl and the mog-hat would like a word hell give the pvp exclusive one a special lighting effect, or make the normal one green or purple a colour the pvp exclusives don't have,

i mean wasn't there meant to be a third coloured hell hound mount and armoured one shown off that was meant for other means to acquire.

Meanwhile, armor concept rewards were never made widely available. Give it up, SE is perfectly fine with rewarding people for having talent/skill

[DracotheDragon]

Or maybe not. I dont see why you should be able to buy something for tokens that people had to compete for why bother competing at all if they'll just give it to you anyway. You wont see that happen as hard as SE is trying to make feast into an Esport.
Instead of just giving away something that people worked hard for why not add rewards like these to be something you could buy with wolf collars you know the things you get as a consolation prize for actually competing?

Making it more obtainable than 100 people ever seems to be a good idea but the idea that someone could be walking around with the lone wolf coat without EVER setting foot in PvP? its ridiculous things like this are a status symbol the same way meteor survivor marks are do you think we should put those in the achievement shop as well?

lets go part by part.

'Or maybe not. I dont see why you should be able to buy something for tokens that people had to compete for why bother competing at all if they'll just give it to you anyway.'

Thus the exclusive colouring or lighting effect to make the item stand out, as well as a couple 2 to 3 patches i.e almost a year of exclusivity to that player, the reward a mount no-one will have that is 100% identacle, with 1 whole year of them being just solely for the top 100 people who may not ever use said mount.

as point in eveadance for this i said the fan festival mog outfit, a exclusive item that was then sold to the masses, the difference and compromise can be that the bought one can be made 1 per person while the reward is account wide.

i can also add, why bother doing A12s o4s o8s why bother with raids, when you get better gear why bother collecting mounts when you could get them later, this argument doesn't hold as much with other content so why pvp, when people can basically complete the requirements at the very start or though non legitimate means, and get rewarded, with a reward revealed FAR later when the content is no longer available to most.

'You wont see that happen as hard as SE is trying to make feast into an Esport.'

this is SE's mistake for trying to tag a 'esport' type of thing into a game that it isn't made for that genre, and for it being a e-sport i don't see any 'professional' and corporate sponsored gamers saying they play this as there esport profession , and i doubt those in the top 100 are 'professionals' please note the quotation, as i mean this in the sense of a job and not i play 12+ hours


'Instead of just giving away something that people worked hard for why not add rewards like these to be something you could buy with wolf collars you know the things you get as a consolation prize for actually competing?'

this part i agree with you, but in this your agree with me to a sense, of allowing other people the ability to gain the mounts though other means, while yes mine is for achievement tokens yours is for wolf tokens, which everyone can get, a good compromise to which i can agree with.

'Making it more obtainable than 100 people ever seems to be a good idea but the idea that someone could be walking around with the lone wolf coat without EVER setting foot in PvP?'

with this i point to your idea of the wolf collars but this time that is an option, and the difference between them, is shown between the sets, the one given to people for free look and dye differently to the ones bought, and a even more basic one can be given to everyone, my evidence for this will be the GARO set, that was gained via MGP, by this argument SE should of never of implemented the glamour set from the MGP,

'its ridiculous things like this are a status symbol the same way meteor survivor marks are do you think we should put those in the achievement shop as well?'

this is not what i was discussing, and i don't like the taste of straw that much, there is a difference between a small mark on the character and a mount, the Metior survivor mark while others may want it is just a tattoo. to be honest i would be happy if they implemented tattoos for players in that sense, not the meteor survivor one.

Meanwhile, armor concept rewards were never made widely available. Give it up, SE is perfectly fine with rewarding people for having talent/skill

mounts minions other armour concepts egi's have been put in the game and done by NPCs that are not given to the players your point if i may ask?

you had me until 'SE is perfectly fine with rewarding people for having talent/skill' check reddit or the fourms and you hear people complaining about premades win-trading and other means that 'talent/skill' can be incorrect, but allow me to say it in this way

the dreadwyrm armours were exclusive to raids and SE was perfectly fine with keeping it that way, then they added the crafted ones. SE was perfectly fine with the kimaru coat being for bard then they made a crafted one for all classes, SE was perfectly fine with the Mog Outfit being exclusive to fan festivals then they sold it on the store, SE was perfectly fine with people not wanting to wear NPC outfits, and then they came on the Mog store. SE was perfectly fine with people NOT getting the previous event items if they missed it, then they were on the mogstore

what this is saying is simple, SE have been 'perfectly fine' with a lot of things, and then they changed there minds.

[Crescents]

lets go part by part.


i can also add, why bother doing A12s o4s o8s why bother with raids, when you get better gear why bother collecting mounts when you could get them later, this argument doesn't hold as much with other content so why pvp, when people can basically complete the requirements at the very start or though non legitimate means, and get rewarded, with a reward revealed FAR later when the content is no longer available to most.

'You wont see that happen as hard as SE is trying to make feast into an Esport.'

Okay you're comparing PvE content with competitive content. theres no clearly structured "winners" in raid tiers you are comparing two totally different types of content. taking the lone wolf coat or the hellhound mount and putting it in the achievement store is saying "hey remember how you competed to be top 100? yeah we're just giving those away because people are whining on the forums" because when it was released it was told to everyone at the same time "hey you can compete in this new pvp season and win this!" its not the rest of our fault you chose not to compete. You can go back to Alexander savage and get the same rewards now but albeit easier you're still clearing the same content. Which is why I'd be okay with with it being available for wolf collars since it's still competing in ranked pvp.

Fanfest outfits arent comparable, you cant compare spending 18$ to winning a competition, although I still think the tattoo is an accurate comparison both are a reward for taking part in certain content neither should be widely distributed.

If you're so annoyed with how little these rewards are seen compete this season and then you can see the mount everyday, they competed, they earned these rewards its not their fault you chose not to compete, also how can you compare garo of all things to RANKED pvp You could maybe make these arguments for casual pvp, but im sorry we shouldnt be giving out ranked PvP rewards for anything but taking part in ranked PvP SE already gives into people too much letting them get anything without effort simply for waiting I hope they dont do it for this and I dont think they will.

And im sorry, but you just come off really entitled that you want something other people worked hard for because you think you deserve it? it's a nice mount sure but its meant to signify a win over hundreds of other people how would you feel if you worked really hard for something and someone complained on the forums and was given something that took you months of play 5+ hours a day and unbelievable amounts of stress just because they wanted it?

Nice how your examples of SE adding items for the general population only apply to items that weren't part of a contest.

THANK YOU.

[DracotheDragon]

Okay you're comparing PvE content with competitive content. theres no clearly structured "winners" in raid tiers you are comparing two totally different types of content. taking the lone wolf coat or the hellhound mount and putting it in the achievement store is saying "hey remember how you competed to be top 100? yeah we're just giving those away because people are whining on the forums" because when it was released it was told to everyone at the same time "hey you can compete in this new pvp season and win this!" its not the rest of our fault you chose not to compete. You can go back to Alexander savage and get the same rewards not but albeit easier you're still clearing the same content. Which is why I'd be okay with with it being available for wolf collars since it's still competing in ranked pvp.

Fanfest outfits arent comparable, you cant compare spending 18$ to winning a competition, although I still think the tattoo is an accurate comparison both are a reward for taking part in certain content neither should be widely distributed.

If you're so annoyed with how little these rewards are seen compete this season and then you can see the mount everyday, they competed, they earned these rewards its not their fault you chose not to compete, also how can you compare garo of all things to RANKED pvp You could maybe make these arguments for casual pvp, but im sorry we shouldnt be giving out ranked PvP rewards for anything but taking part in ranked PvP SE already gives into people too much letting them get anything without effort simply for waiting I hope they dont do it for this and I dont think they will.

And im sorry, but you just come off really entitled that you want something other people worked hard for because you think you deserve it? it's a nice mount sure but its meant to signify a win over hundreds of other people how would you feel if you worked really hard for something and someone complained on the forums and was given something that took you months of play 5+ hours a day and unbelievable amounts of stress just because they wanted it?



THANK YOU.

ok lets go point by point though this again.


'Okay you're comparing PvE content with competitive content. theres no clearly structured "winners" in raid tiers you are comparing two totally different types of content'

so by your logic SE should not promote parties who cleared savage raids or the ultimate raids (which they have done) the idea for 'world first' to you in this example you have given me is as worthless as the top pvp players.also yes i shall compare PVE content to PVP , for one simple and easy regard, it is due to the mechanics of the system and how rewards are given to the whole, to cherry pick into one corner while blocking your ears to the rest doesn't give a full scope into what the issue is,

' taking the lone wolf coat or the hellhound mount and putting it in the achievement store is saying "hey remember how you competed to be top 100? yeah we're just giving those away because people are whining on the forums"'

"hey remember that outfit we gave you for spending hundreds if not thousands of your local currency to come see us for the day as a thank you were giving it to everyone on the mog store because they wanted it"
"hey remember that Fenrir you want that costs 1 million MGP that you grinned for ever for, well were putting it in the recruit a friend area so people who don't know what to spend feathers on can get it"

i can do this as well, but allow me to phrase it this way. there have been multiple items from achievements that have been given a simple recolour or a very SLIGHT change to them then given out by other means, one example is the golden magitek, you can feel good in your golden magitek, while others are in black red and white,

this is what i was advertising for in mine, as i stated give the pvp players a Glowing or a unique shine, with a dulled out one to others after a couple patches, which with this game is basically a full years exclusivity.

'because when it was released it was told to everyone at the same time "hey you can compete in this new pvp season and win this!" its not the rest of our fault you chose not to compete.'

for seasons 1 2 and 3 the time they told the rewards was after the season had started, they showed the promise for a reward and then showed the reward later, this time they have shown the reward again after the start. while on your servers pvp is still active on the datacenter i am from i have been queued into pvp since i started typing and only got into ONE match, i can choose to compete and i have, but as time goes on the incentive to continue becomes harder when the queue to join takes longer then i can give to the game due to life.

'You can go back to Alexander savage and get the same rewards not but albeit easier you're still clearing the same content. Which is why I'd be okay with with it being available for wolf collars since it's still competing in ranked pvp.'

Again i agree with this compromise of it being available via wolf collars, like i said last time, this is a good compromise that i agree with, but as i said you also agree for another means to gain said items. as for the alexander part, now your comparing PvE to PVP which you didn't like me doing but i do still agree when the rewards are a longer lasting item to get. and wolf tokens are something that arnt impossible to gain it is more incentive and good.

i have no disagreements here.

'Fanfest outfits arent comparable, you cant compare spending 18$ to winning a competition, although I still think the tattoo is an accurate comparison both are a reward for taking part in certain content neither should be widely distributed.'

by the logic your going with the meteor tattoo then i can still use the mog outfit as a comparison, and the original Mog outfit was a solid exclusive to people who were physically attending the event until one month prior where they then gave it to the online watchers, this was met with heavy backlash. which is why it is still a amp comparison. you can also then look at the butler and maid outfits a 'competition' in the real world. those sets are now available per person on the mog station, it may not be the exact same type of competition but both are gained though a competition in different regons of the world.

'If you're so annoyed with how little these rewards are seen compete this season and then you can see the mount everyday, they competed, they earned these rewards its not their fault you chose not to compete, also how can you compare garo of all things to RANKED pvp You could maybe make these arguments for casual pvp, but im sorry we shouldnt be giving out ranked PvP rewards for anything but taking part in ranked PvP SE already gives into people too much letting them get anything without effort simply for waiting I hope they dont do it for this and I dont think they will.'

The first part is a repetition for the point made above.

Why compare GARO. because GARO was only meant to be gained though the means of PVP which by the logic you went with should be the only means to which access the sets, they were then put into the gold saucer another forms of accessibility. this is why i use that set, it proves a point. just because it is RANKED pvp or a PVP EXCLUSIVE set means no true difference, all RANKED things mean is a recorded stat added to you, the mounts are PVP exclusive and then once that distinction is made it then falls into the same category as the Garo gears.

I could make this arguement for casual PVP but theres a slight difference, Casual pvp Achivements and gear is still accessible for everyone though normal means, and are not solely in a limited run with no means to gear or anything that remotely looks close. i still agree on the ADS mount achievement though it is harder to get it is still possible for me to get it today tomorrow a year from now and a new player to start and get it themselves.

again i repeat i aint saying for the mount to be made for everyone but for a different version for everyone, or though another means, let there drip with blood or glow with fire be GOLDEN while the one for the other means doesn't glow or is a different colour, its still 'exclusive' and show off=y but it isn't lost forever once it is done.

the last part is up to SE using the examples i gave they tend to change there minds on things, while you can argue on the point of them not changing there mind i believe we can agree that our compromise is possibly the best solution, or agree to disagree.

'And im sorry, but you just come off really entitled that you want something other people worked hard for because you think you deserve it? it's a nice mount sure but its meant to signify a win over hundreds of other people'

first the 'entitled' part is not a good argument, by rights i can say the same to you it won't get us anywhere, personally i feel like this discussion has brought up good points and a civil debate between us so far has shown both our thoughts and ideals there no need to muddy that water with a title that tends to just be "your entitled so i don't want to talk to you" stance, but to continue at no point did i say to give it in a way to everyone to say 'screw you' to the work. at the moment we don't have a grasp onto how the achievement currency are earned. they could put it in there for 500 tokens. i doubt no-one has that many and if they do it is probably a small minority. so by your logic should you say screw them and all they have done, and again, make those who did win, give there version of the mount something unique to them.

' how would you feel if you worked really hard for something and someone complained on the forums and was given something that took you months of play 5+ hours a day and unbelievable amounts of stress just because they wanted it?'

i point back to the dreadwyrm set as my example onto this, and for what they did with ultimate coils. i worked hard, and got my sets for them to become crafted and dyeable, and i thought that it was ok because by then the exclusive 'i did good' vibe wore out.

i think it is a brilliant idea what they did for ultimate coils, to give the gear a glow to stand out, and THAT IS WHY i think the pvp mounts should have the same thing, ANYONE could get the dreadwyrm gear and look good, but they have the shiny version.

they have shown and put in a way that most people agree with it, yet this is the part most disagree on they can do what they have already done.


'THANK YOU.'

while i know this wasn't aimed at me, but i should say thank you, as i said above i think this debate has shown what both sides think so far, i do agree with the compromise as stated above in this post, Weather it be for the achievement shop or the wolf collars shop there is a common middle ground between our views to where we both agree it should be put.

Nice how your examples of SE adding items for the general population only apply to items that weren't part of a contest.

Butler attire and maid attire are in the mogstation and were part of a contest irl.

The Korean and Chinese exclusive mounts and outfits as well if you wish for me to use ones that they fully intended to keep to those reasons specifically

I also like how you include items like the dreadwyrm set that you could get in a un-synced raid quite easily.

i used this as an example that goes with there intent as you have, this point is still valid the fact you can do it easily today doesn't mean they intended it to be gained though other means.

NPC outfits were never available until SE decided to release them, and again, weren't part of a contest that involved talent/skill or anything of a similar nature

this goes against your SE intended it in your last post, with this you changed your wording to be more spisific so i shall repeat my earlier point the butler and maid outfit were part of a 'contest' for a real life collection, this is within the definition of a contest. that is now available to others, to say i am now focusing on something that isn't pvp is mainly down to your argument coming down to pure semantics. i have said the outfits with there original intention, and what they have done since. this regardless of the content is no different.




Also to end this off @Crescents i do thank you for this little debate, hopefully it enlightens others who read it, though we may not agree on this, i do like the compromise you came up with.

[Sigiria]

SE is perfectly fine with rewarding people for having talent/skill

Yeah sure, "skill and talent"
Completly disregarding the fact that a lot of people in the top 100 got a terrible winrate but just had that much time on their hands to pour into the feast and managed to rank only thanks to the amount of matches they played.
If there was a finite numbers ot matches each season I would be inclined to agree about being skill based (although if you're going with a pld/whm combo not that much skill is involved) but right now giving these for only 100 people regardless of how crowded some datacenters are it's just more a game of who got more time to sink into this. And if you're not among the 100 that had that much time you just wasted yours.

So yeah, with all the raid content getting insanely easier once irrelvant and gear being even craftable I don't see why it's such a big deal for irrelevant pvp reward to be kept completly locked out.

[Aviars]

Yeah sure, "skill and talent"
Completly disregarding the fact that a lot of people in the top 100 got a terrible winrate but just had that much time on their hands to pour into the feast and managed to rank only thanks to the amount of matches they played.

You realize percentages are relative to your respective rank right?

having 50% at low plat isn't the same as 50% at diamond

you can also have a artificially low winrate due to the fact you play a lot. Say you hit a brick wall at 3000 rating and break even on games at that point? the more games you play the lower your winrate gets.

You can also argue that people who play a lot of games naturally get better at the game. Oh that must be a foreign concept to you

So please stop pointing to winrates as a indication of skill, learn what percentages mean and get back to me