TBN vs DA (analysis and discussion)

[Mycow8me]

Personally if they could just find a way to make blood our DPS resource and MP our Mitigation/HP restore resource, I'd be golden but it would require some rework... Have dark arts transfer MP to blood with a cooldown and delirium transfer blood to MP with a cooldown.

TBN as a standalone cooldown with no benefit/cost beyond the shield @ 30 seconds would be neat too though, I'm guessing darks would use it more.

[Nedkel]

I've been thinking just removing the MP / Blood from TBN and just let it be a defensive cooldown. It's not like paladins really give up much for using Shelltron, and many have highlighted this as primarily because the Oath gauge only powers a subset of abilities, and is not really a universal resource in the way MP is.

Remove the cost and blood conversion, give it a longer cooldown, and make the shield somewhat stronger. Something like 30% / 30 seconds. A longer cooldown discourages using it for everything, and a stronger shield makes it more likely to be impactful as a standalone cooldown.

We can take it a step further and empower it under Blood Weapon and Blood Price

TBN Breaks under Blood Price: Gain 50 Blood.
TBN Breaks under Blood Weapon: Heal for X Health.

It would break the synergy DRK has with quietus.
In dungeons DRK benefits from TBN-quietus exchange with full hands on, without it he would burn out of mp unable to do proper rotations.

Personally, I think people have got the DPS>All mentality stuck in their minds far to rigidly. The DPS benefit from avoiding TBN except when absolutely necessary is fractions of a % of a loss on average, and at times, fractions of a % gain. The VAST majority of players are not playing optimally enough to be able to leverage only the gains and dodge the losses. Its unrealistic for the avg drk to know if this specific use is a gain or a loss at that moment in this specific fight/situation.

This sidesteps the real issue anyway. All of the chatter about TBN as a gain or a loss is really just splitting hairs. The actual impact it has in-game on your DPS is not significant enough to warrant the obsession with this specific topic. No matter what you do, it will have virtually no impact on your game. So in that light, you are just throwing away large, consistent shields because of an unhealthy obsession with a fractions of a % of damage. Yes. Plds costs no damage. But Drks is so wishy washy in the grey area that FUNCTIONALLY you can treat it as if it also costs no damage. People get stuck on the 'principle of the matter' that Plds costs no damage instead of the practical truth that the damage loss is to small to actually matter.

The predictions and the analizis have all the place in the trash can where they belong, since they went so wrong on the warrior i dont believe in any of these anymore.
Everyone was complaining how warrior is going to be nerfed and it turned out to be a buff straight away, so you always have to take those with a grain of salt, especially if someone is mentioning something like "15-50 tbn" uses rotfl, thats unrealistic, not only because someone is extending the time of close combat fight, but because you will simply not have enough mana even for 4 uses.
Its a simple thing to understand here, DRK gets 50 blood gauge for the 2400 mp used on TBN, that could be used on bloodspiller.
Whenever or not using gcd to use is a waste or a gain, people tend to forget most of the raids/trials/dungeon bosses has certain mechanics thats just force you away from them, making it not possible to make the scenarios used for the sake of calculations relevant in real game.
Because what if DRK that was saving MP he would have use on TBN would waste it on soul eater he was unable to execute because target gone invincible or jumped far far away?

[Kabooa]

It would break the synergy DRK has with quietus.
In dungeons DRK benefits from TBN-quietus exchange with full hands on, without it he would burn out of mp unable to do proper rotations.

Oh no. If only we could have some way to adjust Blood gain to keep it relatively the same.

[Nedkel]

Oh no. If only we could have some way to adjust Blood gain to keep it relatively the same.

Im liking that synergy with shield more than anything else in dungs and pulls.
Why fixing a thing that is not broken.

[Rathael]

When Off-tanking I view TBN as a tool of convenience, assuming there is no significant loss in potency. It's an instant on-demand 50 blood when used correctly. This means you can set up Blood weapon + delirium immediately on-demand. Using it this way means more blood weapon time since you spend less time delaying blood weapon to ensure you get enough blood for Delirium before blood weapon falls off. Unless you have some perfect convoluted method of always ensuring you have 50 blood when you activate Blood Weapon, I would say this compensates for any insignificant loss in potency by using TBN.

[Mycow8me]

You shouldnt be delaying bloodweapon regardless of tbn usage. You can safely generate enough blood to trigger delirium without tbn. Since delerium has a high cool down i highly doubt you are going to squeeze one more into a fight by using it on cooldown but bloodweapon recast is much smaller meaning using it on cooldown is important to make sure you are getting as many into a fight as you can. I cant prove your claim otherwise but my gut says using tbn to proc delirium faster isnt really changing anything unless you manage to somehow squeeze another one into the fight by utilizing tbn to use it on cooldown.

[Kabooa]

You shouldnt be delaying bloodweapon regardless of tbn usage. You can safely generate enough blood to trigger delirium without tbn. Since delerium has a high cool down i highly doubt you are going to squeeze one more into a fight by using it on cooldown but bloodweapon recast is much smaller meaning using it on cooldown is important to make sure you are getting as many into a fight as you can. I cant prove your claim otherwise but my gut says using tbn to proc delirium faster isnt really changing anything unless you manage to somehow squeeze another one into the fight by utilizing tbn to use it on cooldown.

I can see it being an issue if you dumped a bloodspiller during a transition, but not really beyond that. Generally speaking, it's pretty easy to set up your delirium windows as far as blood is concerned.