TBN vs DA (analysis and discussion)

[Aana]

The thing is, DRK isn't really in a position to forego TBN. I suppose as an OT you wouldn't need to use it, certainly not as often, but as a MT they don't have many mitigation options without it. In the grand scheme I don't see an issue with having a cost/benefit like this, WAR is similar with IB - good mitigation boost but comes with a dps loss. Obviously War's kit without IB is better than Drk's kit without TBN, a separate issue altogether, but in general I think trading dps for mitigation makes some sense.

Maybe Bloodspiller should just be off the GCD? Though that doesn't exactly help the problem of excessive dual-weaving.

The question is never really 'should I use TBN at all?'. As you pointed out. Drk as a MT cant really afford to just not use it ever. The question is aimed at 'should I use it as often as reasonably possible if I will get the full mitigation value (pop the shield, get the refund?'

The latter gets into using it on other people, when youre the OT, spamming it to mitigate auto's if theres no tank buster in the next 15 sec, etc.

Personally, I think people have got the DPS>All mentality stuck in their minds far to rigidly. The DPS benefit from avoiding TBN except when absolutely necessary is fractions of a % of a loss on average, and at times, fractions of a % gain. The VAST majority of players are not playing optimally enough to be able to leverage only the gains and dodge the losses. Its unrealistic for the avg drk to know if this specific use is a gain or a loss at that moment in this specific fight/situation.

This sidesteps the real issue anyway. All of the chatter about TBN as a gain or a loss is really just splitting hairs. The actual impact it has in-game on your DPS is not significant enough to warrant the obsession with this specific topic. No matter what you do, it will have virtually no impact on your game. So in that light, you are just throwing away large, consistent shields because of an unhealthy obsession with a fractions of a % of damage. Yes. Plds costs no damage. But Drks is so wishy washy in the grey area that FUNCTIONALLY you can treat it as if it also costs no damage. People get stuck on the 'principle of the matter' that Plds costs no damage instead of the practical truth that the damage loss is to small to actually matter.

[Chrono_Rising]

The question is never really 'should I use TBN at all?'

Personally, I think people have got the DPS>All mentality stuck in their minds far to rigidly. The DPS benefit from avoiding TBN except when absolutely necessary is fractions of a % of a loss on average, and at times, fractions of a % gain. The VAST majority of players are not playing optimally enough to be able to leverage only the gains and dodge the losses. Its unrealistic for the avg drk to know if this specific use is a gain or a loss at that moment in this specific fight/situation.

This sidesteps the real issue anyway. All of the chatter about TBN as a gain or a loss is really just splitting hairs.

I'm not even sure what you are arguing against as I don't see anyone suggesting to not use it at all. Honestly, I thought this post was fairly balanced and brought up an apparently needed conversation given the recent false claims in another thread claiming that TBN greatly out weighs the 2400 mana in terms of DPS.

My major problem. Paladin is now blocking for 27% with sheltron, and I've been told when I get my diamond shield I can expect 28% mitigation from blocking. This means that Sheltron is the superior mitigation for anything hitting above about 71% of your maximum HP. On its own that isn't so bad, the issue is that sheltron performs so much better in the range of damage you would want to use TBN on AND functions as a damage increase by procing shield swipe.

By the end of the expac I'm almost positive we are going to have sheltron in the 30% range with essentially a 22 second cooldown which you can use for 100 oGCD potency. This is what people are comparing TBN to. To me this is just more of the same Dark is closer to warrior for mitigation and paladin for dps. It is the worst of both worlds.