Hurry up and fix V5s WAR ghost exploit

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Curious about this, it's it really a DPS loss for the party? I mean the ghosts you fight in the cabins are not linked to the boss's HP so any damage you do to them isn't going to make a big difference. Yes I suppose you could say well it's easier to keep buffs that come through using rotations etc, but you would also be saving MP/TP for not wasting it on the ghosts to begin with, not to mention you don't have to spend seconds interacting with the point, reappearing on the train and then traveling within damage range to attack the boss.

It's a DPS gain. Unlike normal mode, Phantom Savage appears much faster. Therefore, everyone outside will usually get 3-5 extra GCDs. Not to mention, since healers can't DPS their adds at all, they get flat bonus damage they wouldn't have otherwise. Right now though, it's shifted to Red Mage being the ideal candidate. It loses virtually nothing and can zerg the tank ghost down faster than Warrior. Machinist and Summoner may also work if they don't lose much going in.

Each to their own, then. I'll continue to frown at it since - whilst convenient - it's making the PF rather toxic and stifling getting fresh blood into the raiding scene. Much like how 'SKIP SOAR' served to do the same thing with Zurvan EX. Hopefully when we get 4.3, the associated Primal fight will be free of such things.

Granted, I do understand why people do it.

Exploits would be Ungarmax as it deliberately involves using an ability not designed for content outside Sqaudrons. Tank LB3 is fully intended for high, snap mitigation. People just found a creative way around dealing with Byakko. In regards to dublicate jobs. People tend to do that for everything since why lose a possible LB just to bring two Black Mages or Dragoons?

[Metalwrath]

It's a dps loss for war, but a dps increase for the whole party.
Who is expected to deal the most damage in the party? DPS. Who will keep their CD then to be able to burn it on the boss and make his life drop even faster ?
DPS.

So, in the end, this slight personnal DPS loss from warrior is a huge increase to the party, and that's how it should be taken. TO THE PARTY.

Im talking about one dps instead of Warrior.You do understand that right?For example throwing a red mage in to nuke a boss instead of warrior is an overall dps gain on the fight.

[Nerfworthy]

In my FC's PF we will usually ask if the pug people want to/are comfortable with the skip strat and if not then we don't do it. I don't see how it's such a big deal?

[Jijifli]

How DARE players use the tools devs gave us to learn new strats. How dare it use what a class has normally available, instead of o6s's squad LB bug that was clearly not intended to be possible.

How dare RDM players for doing the same thing.

[Kewitt]

This isn't an Exploit as RDM can do it to.
And more jobs will with over gearing.

Just because DEV can't try or think of every posiable thing doesn't make it an exploit.
An exploit to me is something that isn't normally posiable in the game. Not something that is just not thought about by the dev team.
ie using the /ac command to do action you normally can't because Dev team didn't code them correctly.

[Squintina]

It's not an exploit if the game gives absolutely no indication that this might not be a valid way of doing things.

And it doesn't. There's absolutely nothing in the game to indicate that everyone has to do all ghosts.

For something to be considered an exploit, it needs some degree of obviousness. We do not have the ability to read dev minds.

For example, Ungarmax exploit had that obviousness because its skill section is in squadron and clearly states it.
Warp exploit had that obviousness because it is only given to players in pvp.

Something that has absolutely 0 obviousness because the devs force the players to completely figure out the whole thing on their own cannot be considered an exploit. It is a strat and if the devs do not like it, they can do something to stop it, but it doesn't change that it is not an exploit.

This is precisely why even though the devs admitted to not thinking of the tank lb3 strategy for byakko, they said they would allow it, because we cannot read dev minds and using a tank lb3 to do what tank lb3 is supposed to do (reduce damage) isn't an exploit. The same goes with ghost strat.

Devs also admitted that they watch world first clears to see how players did things (and that one of the reasons they do so is to see the various strategies players come up with), so believe me they've seen this strategy of having 1 person stop the whole phase on their own. If they didn't approve of it, they'd have done something about it by now.

Also it doesn't take that long to decide on whether or not to use it at the beginning of a run. If someone feels they can definitely do it in time - do it. If they don't think they'll be able to because they're not confident in their damage and lag (yes I know SE said the loading times are the same, but server lag with actions after loading is still individual and can still lead to variances), then don't do it. If no one is confident they can do it, you have no choice than the do all the ghosts.

[LineageRazor]

It's not an exploit if the game gives absolutely no indication that this might not be a valid way of doing things.

And it doesn't. There's absolutely nothing in the game to indicate that everyone has to do all ghosts.

This is pure nonsense. There's EVERY indication that players are meant to do all ghosts - there's a ghost for everyone, you die if you don't get caught by a ghost (barring the WAR/RDM strat), and those ghosts are even keyed to job roles!

This is an exploit in every sense of the word. If SE decided never to do anything about it, that doesn't change the fact that it's an exploit. It's no different from the Coil 2 enrage strat - unintended, but never patched.

There's no sense getting bitter about it, but it's also hilarious to claim that it's working as intended.

[Jijifli]

[QUOTE=LineageRazor;4604144You die if you don't get caught by a ghost (barring the WAR/RDM strat)[/QUOTE]

Little correction here. As of this moment, it can only be done with WAR/RDM. But this is only because unlike every other job, these two have insane burst power to get the dps out in the time frame needed. Once we get more gear, everyone would be capable. of this, outside of maybe healers.

If Square thinks it's not intentional, they can always code it so that the gas lasts it's full 10 seconds, rather than vanish on the first ghost kill. But then that leads to a future issue of people doing so good dps, they pop out too early and kill themselves. Which would you rather in your future?

[Squintina]

This is pure nonsense. There's EVERY indication that players are meant to do all ghosts - there's a ghost for everyone, you die if you don't get caught by a ghost (barring the WAR/RDM strat), and those ghosts are even keyed to job roles!

This is an exploit in every sense of the word. If SE decided never to do anything about it, that doesn't change the fact that it's an exploit. It's no different from the Coil 2 enrage strat - unintended, but never patched.

There's no sense getting bitter about it, but it's also hilarious to claim that it's working as intended.

While I understand that the game certainly hints at it very strongly, and it does, the fact remains that there's no actual text to officially say that. Without text, anything else is an educated guess. Those educated guesses might be correct, but without something actually saying it, it remains just that - conjecture. No matter how many things you can find to support your educated guess, without clear text it remains a guess.

For example.
Ghosts existing for each?
Who's to say the strategy wasn't officially "Players will choose a select few members, 3-4, to go in and stop the ghosts while others stay behind. Enough ghosts will be provided to let parties determine how many players go and try and provide enough time to reach a ghost depending on where they are located in the platform".


Heck, considering that depending on the order you come out in you can completely screw over the whole party, I could say that this design where healers pretty much always comes out last because they have to wait for the ghost to kill itself (while the train potentially destroys anyone else who came out before) would actually support the idea that they intended for at least 1 healer and 1 tank to stay behind for the party's survivability while the others are in the ghost phase and that the party-wide death is simply a dps check.

It's not unlike SE to make dps checks for only a subset of people affect the survivability of the entire party.

Without text to support it, this version of the strat would be equally as likely to have been intentional by the devs.

And like I said, the devs have admitted they watch world first clears, which this strat was used in many of them. If they were against it, they'd have said something by now. It wasn't a strategy introduced later and only by a small fraction of groups. It was widely used.

Now if they come out tomorrow with a post saying they do not want people to use this and to stop using it until they patch it, then I'll be right with you to call this an exploit.

And this is coming from a party that doesn't use this strategy at all because none of us in my party feel confident enough to rely on it.

[Critical-Limit]

Every party I had where the war asked can we do it the normal way cuz he's not consistent at it, the party said ok, and we just did it the normal way.

Point is your evidence is anecdotal. So is mine. Neither of us has a clear view on toxic levels. So stop saying it like its fact.
Did you do a survey? No.