Dark Knight under review: Feedback to the Developers and Community Team

[DBelmont]

They really need to stop this pattern. All it shows is that they can only balance two tanks, which if that's truely the case, they need to hire someone who actually can.

They also need to put in the effort of balancing more than one tank at a time.

Maybe adding a 4th tank will force them to balance all 4 of them on more equal grounds? We can only wait and see.

[shao32]

Maybe adding a 4th tank will force them to balance all 4 of them on more equal grounds? We can only wait and see.

at least with 4 tanks we will have more choices if one is underperforming the way PLD and DRK do in they respective patchs and not get stuck with 2.

[bustamanteverde]

Tried my hand at tanking and started off with DRK, it is fun till I received Dark Arts. Dart Arts just makes it so button mashy, felt like playing my NIN all over again. Turned to a GLD and really enjoyed how much more fluid and that shield is a Hydalen send. What is the trade off for DRK lack of mitigation? I feel DRK should have way more HP recovery tools, the only ones we have require Dark Arts before being used. I adore the giant sword and dark ascetic, reminds me so much of Guts from Berserk. It just feels overly complicated for no reason and lacks so many tolls compared to WAR and PLD. I may just level up my GLD - PLD till DRK gets some more love.

[RareItems]

Maybe they could change both Living Dead and Holmgang's effects just like Hollowed Ground's so all 3 tanks have a 10 second invulnerability.

Give Warrior and Dark Knight an ability to Block Damage. Maybe Warrior can have a buckler strapped to his left wrist and Dark Knight can have a familiar that blocks damage for him so they have something to block damage like PLD. Change Warrior's Raw Intuition so it's like PLD's Bulwark, and give Dark a similar Ability.

Change Dark Mind so it mitigates all damage instead of just magic.


Change Blood Price so it also reduces 10% of incoming damage, Blood Weapon also increases your damage by 20%.

Give Dark Knight Dread Spikes, Duration 30s, Recast 1min, Steal HP/MP from enemies who hit you.

Change Unleash and give it the same damage and TP cost as Warrior's Overpower.

Just a thought. XD

[347SPECTRE]

Maybe they could change both Living Dead and Holmgang's effects just like Hollowed Ground's so all 3 tanks have a 10 second invulnerability.

Give Warrior and Dark Knight an ability to Block Damage. Maybe Warrior can have a buckler strapped to his left wrist and Dark Knight can have a familiar that blocks damage for him so they have something to block damage like PLD. Change Warrior's Raw Intuition so it's like PLD's Bulwark, and give Dark a similar Ability.

Change Dark Mind so it mitigates all damage instead of just magic.


Change Blood Price so it also reduces 10% of incoming damage, Blood Weapon also increases your damage by 20%.

Give Dark Knight Dread Spikes, Duration 30s, Recast 1min, Steal HP/MP from enemies who hit you.

Change Unleash and give it the same damage and TP cost as Warrior's Overpower.

Just a thought. XD

I know this post is most likely sarcasm but, further homogenization of tanks is the absolute LAST thing we need.

[Saeno]

I know this post is most likely sarcasm but, further homogenization of tanks is the absolute LAST thing we need.

Sure, so long as tanks don't end up with lackluster abilities. Things like Rampart being on all tanks instead of 2 is a good thing but it's very homogeneous.

[whiskeybravo]

Upon further reflection, is it necessarily a bad thing if a job is more like a "raid spec" kind of job? Even NIN is in a similar spot, for dungeons would you rather have an AoE vulnerability like Hypercharge or still prefer the single target TA? Back to tanks, would you rather have Raw for dungeons or Dark Mind? Everything is "viable" of course, but perhaps there should be a bigger distinction between "raid spec" and "casual" jobs.

I don't know, maybe not. Just a thought.

[Izsha]

Upon further reflection, is it necessarily a bad thing if a job is more like a "raid spec" kind of job? Even NIN is in a similar spot, for dungeons would you rather have an AoE vulnerability like Hypercharge or still prefer the single target TA? Back to tanks, would you rather have Raw for dungeons or Dark Mind? Everything is "viable" of course, but perhaps there should be a bigger distinction between "raid spec" and "casual" jobs.

I don't know, maybe not. Just a thought.

I think of it more as situational actions instead of a 'raid spec'. Not all abilities are good/useful all the time. If there are never more than 2 mobs (say, O7s) then fire II is pretty dang useless. Might as well delete it from your hotbar. If there are no knockbacks, might as well delete tempered will. No adds? Delete sole survivor. No downtime in a fight? Why does meditate exist? Mob immune to silence? Can we delete arm of the destroyer yet?

Not every skill is useful, let alone optimal at all times. Some skills are more general, some are incredibly niche and specific and everything in between. Just because a skill isn't good in dungeons (dark mind for example) doesn't make it 'bad', nor something that is bad in raids and awesome in dungeons 'good' (sole survivor for example). Both of these skills have a function and a purpose. Just like Arm of the destroyer, tempered will, and every AOE skill have a purpose, even if you don't use it at all for certain fights.

This gets complicated when you try to balance a job though. Are we balancing for lv 50? Leveling up 1-70? Balance at 70 in dungeons? Balance at 70 in raids? Balance for PVP? Its quite impossible to make every job equally good at everything without making them clones. Someone is better at fighting multiple mobs, someone is better leveling from 1-70. Someone is better at dungeons. Or raids.

SE 'seems' to have organized most of the balance around lv 70 high end raids. That is were skills like living dead are fantastic, even though its more likely to kill you than help in a pug DF dungeon. That's why Dark mind is as it is. Its a strong skill in raids. That's why Ninja has shadewalker. The focus for SE seems to be on coordinated raid situations. And I cant really disagree with that. Does a healer ever see a drk in dungeon and insta bail because living dead is annoying? Nope. Were 30 levels over when a dungeon is released. No one cares because you don't need living dead to beat a dungeon you can sleepwalk through. No one will kick you from a Eureka party because your a drk instead of pld. But you will get denied spots in raids if your job isn't 'good enough/meta enough' this patch. As much as it might suck if you just do lower end content, it doesn't actually stop you from doing the content. Balance in lower content is a bit of a misnomer. Its about quality of life "I can Hallowed the big pull and smile, but on drk you have to use CDs and accept heals, but ultimately still win regardless." Balance in high end situations is about ability to play and complete content. The latter is far more impactful and why most games balance from the top down and some stuff gets wonky the farther down you go, but that doesn't draw a line in the sand you cant pass, just a QOL 'nice to have'.

[Kabooa]

Upon further reflection, is it necessarily a bad thing if a job is more like a "raid spec" kind of job? Even NIN is in a similar spot, for dungeons would you rather have an AoE vulnerability like Hypercharge or still prefer the single target TA? Back to tanks, would you rather have Raw for dungeons or Dark Mind? Everything is "viable" of course, but perhaps there should be a bigger distinction between "raid spec" and "casual" jobs.

I don't know, maybe not. Just a thought.

In this scenario, I'd rather they use the cross role system for more robust options.

Party having issues surviving?

Slot the trait "I am your opponent", reducing damage the party takes by 5% but increasing yours by 10%

Need to do more damage?

Slot the Berserker trait, increasing damage dealt by 15% but disabling Defensive actions outside Tank stance.