Why are pvp bots still a thing?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

SE doesn't care too much is the obvious answer and they fall under the radar of them.

It goes beyond that to a degree. I want to believe they care, but SE's own policies work against them when it comes to dealing with this, I explained it in better detail here:

Square Enix's policies regarding screenshots and video as well as livestreams will not accept them as evidence, on the possibility that these media can be edited for possible false reporting. But without said evidence, reports go seemingly unanswered, as it seems the actual matches themselves aren't reviewed, and since bots/botting players won't openly mention it in chat, there's literally nothing to see, thus nothing to act upon. But again, the issue is VERY real, and many of us are pretty fed up with it. It grew exponentially at the start of Stormblood when PvP became an alternative source of XP, especially for DPS jobs that often suffer long queues. Six months later, while it has declined some because people have generally leveled what they wish to, the problem still persists, and now with fewer live players to call it out. Many avid PvPers were disappointed with the overhaul to PvP, couple that with openly cheating/exploiting for XP, and complete silence/being ignored by the devs, and this issue is only driving more real players away, giving more spots to these botting players.

[CakeyCakes]

50 Poetics, 50 Creation, 20 Mendacity, 500 Wolf Marks.
Below 70, it's also decent-ish for XP and still gives Poetics/Wolf Marks.
(Decent-ish because, well... we're talking about botting activities, not legitimate activities)

Wolf Marks can be turned into Company Seals, as can Poetics. If they added hunt marks as well, it'd be a one-stop supermarket of battle currencies.

Oh snap! I didn't know the gear could be turned into seals. I should do my daily pvp roulette at the very least then. Thanks for the tip!

[Ametrine]

Yeah, as a way to get players into PVP, the rewards are sky high.

Not to get all "Back in my day!" on everyone, but PVP used to have exclusive PVP stats, along witb materia and gearsets specifically tailored for PVP modes. This meant you played PVP modes to earn Wolf Marks to buy PVP gear to get better stats in PVP. Pretty straightforward stuff.

The drawback was that this made everything super niche, and it was similar to crafting/gathering in that some players simply don't want to, or didn't have the time to, invest into an entirely different branch of gameplay. You had to play PVP in primetime hours or you wouldn't get far, but that meant everyone of us in PVP *enjoyed* PVP and were actively trying to improve.

Then they added EXP and Tomes to get more players into it, got rid of all PVP only stats and converted the gear into vanity only (which made the lower tier PVP sets total junk since the iLVL90 rewards are naturally better than the first two tiers from the Wolf's Den). SE basically janked the whole system apart to get more players in, and when that didn't do enough, they totally uprooted the combat side for 4.0.

And well, now every PVP'er is withering away under bots.

[Levy9]

Can someone explain to me the point of botting pvp? Like for what end result?

PvP has given tomes, wolf marks & their associated glamours for years but widespread botting is more recent. Not to say that it literally never happened before but it was much rarer and largely negligible during the 2.0 & 3.0 eras. It seems to have exploded to all time highs after 4.0's exp system, which is why there was an outcry of posters in the forums asking for PvP exp to be removed last year. The difference was notable enough for them (and me) to attribute the rise in botting to the exp system. Endgame PvE tomes probably aren't a significant factor, as endgame PvE content rewards endgame tomes by default.

Fair warning about the roulette, most of the bots seem to stick to shatter. A common theme between images and videos like the above is that they tend to be shatter matches. I did a bunch of 72 man seal rock last night and there were no readily discernable bots. I don't believe there were any bots at all, but you can't always know that among so many people.

[Zojha]

The drawback was that this made everything super niche, and it was similar to crafting/gathering in that some players simply don't want to, or didn't have the time to, invest into an entirely different branch of gameplay.

With the result being...
*drumroll*
Bots. And wintrading. The earliest thread complaining about bots I found on the PvP forums dates back all the way to late 2013 - Apparently, the bots back then would stand at the start area and heal/attack you if you were in range, but not do anything else. But I can find more than that one thread if I go and scroll through the forums of yore.

And that's why they ended up making frontlines with iLvL sync and thus kill morale. There's an age-old yoshi-p interview from that time where he pretty much confirmed that they did that so people didn't feel pressured to farm morale gear to play PvP and resort to wintrading. Gosh, must be somewhere around page 120? I linked it once or twice in the past.

There were also a bunch of controversies about "Eso farmers" later. But not much about bots at the time, just people who simply don't care to make an effort in PvP.

Truth be told, when you read through the forums, it looks like PvP has come full cycle more than once by now.

[Shouko]

It goes beyond that to a degree. I want to believe they care, but SE's own policies work against them when it comes to dealing with this, I explained it in better detail here:

Idk what the PvP is like as I try to stay away from it for this very reason but to me at least imo, SE doesn't care about botters as long as it makes them money. Sure they do banwaves a lot but they just come back with new accounts, stolen or otherwise.

On the other hand I think the devs that work under SE like Yoshi feel strongly about bots but have their hands tied.

[MomomiMomi]

I very often have 4-5 bots in my party, especially during the slow hours of the night. Not only is it frustrating having them on my team, but it's also not very fun to kill bots, either.

Last night I had 4 bots in my party. One of the enemy teams had 4-5. The entire group walked right by me, a lone dps. Didn't even glance at me, the easy kill. What was more important to them? To go position themselves at that chokepoint. You know the place.

I should have died that night. I should have died.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Idk what the PvP is like as I try to stay away from it for this very reason but to me at least imo, SE doesn't care about botters as long as it makes them money. Sure they do banwaves a lot but they just come back with new accounts, stolen or otherwise.

On the other hand I think the devs that work under SE like Yoshi feel strongly about bots but have their hands tied.

For all the ban waves they do, I still see some of the very same ones from even before Stormblood.

And I'm fresh out of sympathy for them. Their hands are tied, but they can find ways to repeatedly NOT fix issues based on player feedback, while steadily making PvP worse, yet claiming they're aiming for E-Sports? They can ban a person mid-match for words they said, but can't catch a repeat offender wintrader simply because he's said nothing in game. He did say something on the forums, and it's by my grace and patience that I don't put his ass on blast right now. Something's fundamentally wrong where people abiding the rules who may perhaps slip up once are quicker to catch a punishment than others who've been openly violating the TOS for a year now. A YEAR.

And SE's said and done NOTHING.

[Nedkel]

Nothing will be done unless it happens on the JP servers. Only way to force SE to look at it.

Pretty much this.

SE only looks after Japan community, rest of the world are cash machines.
Even EN GM's doesnt have any contact with the core of the SE, im pretty much sure about it.
And i wouldnt probably be any far away from truth if i would say international SE department contains 1.5 people in the middle of the Taiga in Siberia, of which 2 of them are on 0.75 time contract and spends rest of the 0.25 to fight bears.

[RiyahArp]

Not to get all "Back in my day!" on everyone, but PVP used to have exclusive PVP stats, along witb materia and gearsets specifically tailored for PVP modes. This meant you played PVP modes to earn Wolf Marks to buy PVP gear to get better stats in PVP. Pretty straightforward stuff.

Morale was stupid, because it meant new players were useless. It's bad enough to have a skills gap in arena pvp; with a stats gap, it's near impossible for new players to complete. It makes maybe more sense in open world pvp, which I'm betting is where it came from.