Why are pvp bots still a thing?

[Kisama]

I wouldn't really be surprised if Square didn't even know about the bot issue. Given their response to the squadron LB thing, the NA team probably doesn't even give the developers any feedback.

[Ametrine]

Yeah, as a way to get players into PVP, the rewards are sky high.

Not to get all "Back in my day!" on everyone, but PVP used to have exclusive PVP stats, along witb materia and gearsets specifically tailored for PVP modes. This meant you played PVP modes to earn Wolf Marks to buy PVP gear to get better stats in PVP. Pretty straightforward stuff.

The drawback was that this made everything super niche, and it was similar to crafting/gathering in that some players simply don't want to, or didn't have the time to, invest into an entirely different branch of gameplay. You had to play PVP in primetime hours or you wouldn't get far, but that meant everyone of us in PVP *enjoyed* PVP and were actively trying to improve.

Then they added EXP and Tomes to get more players into it, got rid of all PVP only stats and converted the gear into vanity only (which made the lower tier PVP sets total junk since the iLVL90 rewards are naturally better than the first two tiers from the Wolf's Den). SE basically janked the whole system apart to get more players in, and when that didn't do enough, they totally uprooted the combat side for 4.0.

And well, now every PVP'er is withering away under bots.

[Zojha]

The drawback was that this made everything super niche, and it was similar to crafting/gathering in that some players simply don't want to, or didn't have the time to, invest into an entirely different branch of gameplay.

With the result being...
*drumroll*
Bots. And wintrading. The earliest thread complaining about bots I found on the PvP forums dates back all the way to late 2013 - Apparently, the bots back then would stand at the start area and heal/attack you if you were in range, but not do anything else. But I can find more than that one thread if I go and scroll through the forums of yore.

And that's why they ended up making frontlines with iLvL sync and thus kill morale. There's an age-old yoshi-p interview from that time where he pretty much confirmed that they did that so people didn't feel pressured to farm morale gear to play PvP and resort to wintrading. Gosh, must be somewhere around page 120? I linked it once or twice in the past.

There were also a bunch of controversies about "Eso farmers" later. But not much about bots at the time, just people who simply don't care to make an effort in PvP.

Truth be told, when you read through the forums, it looks like PvP has come full cycle more than once by now.

[RiyahArp]

Not to get all "Back in my day!" on everyone, but PVP used to have exclusive PVP stats, along witb materia and gearsets specifically tailored for PVP modes. This meant you played PVP modes to earn Wolf Marks to buy PVP gear to get better stats in PVP. Pretty straightforward stuff.

Morale was stupid, because it meant new players were useless. It's bad enough to have a skills gap in arena pvp; with a stats gap, it's near impossible for new players to complete. It makes maybe more sense in open world pvp, which I'm betting is where it came from.

[Zojha]

It makes maybe more sense in open world pvp, which I'm betting is where it came from.

It actually came from WoW's Arena and the concept of "Resilience", later changed to "PvP Power + PvP Resilience" and then... I think ditched entirely.

That PvP only stat was introduced during Burning Crusade along with Arenas and made people in PvP more powerful (the details of 'powerful' changing over the years), without affecting PvE. What did Morale do? Well, just that. Wolves Den had the same rules of engagement as WoW's arenas as well.

It was pretty much a paint job and they probably didn't expect it to flop as badly as it did because WoW could sustain it. Turns out there's several differences between the games, from playerbase over netcode to class balance and combat design.

[Levy9]

Yeah, as a way to get players into PVP, the rewards are sky high.

Not to get all "Back in my day!" on everyone, but PVP used to have exclusive PVP stats, along witb materia and gearsets specifically tailored for PVP modes. This meant you played PVP modes to earn Wolf Marks to buy PVP gear to get better stats in PVP. Pretty straightforward stuff.

Grindable gear is a reward though. You're replacing the reward, rather than abandoning the concept of rewards. The ideal balance would be to find rewards that people who don't care about PvP won't go out of their way to get but the people who actually enjoy PvP casually can have something to grind. There's a middle ground here that I don't think is being met with the same old achievement prizes we've had for years and PvE tomes that incentivize PvE content. I liked someone else's idea of a weekly PvP currency that could be used to purchase wolf crates, essentially FFXIV's version of lootboxes.

We both believe that PvPers should have something to grind, although I'm certain that PvPers would eventually bot for functional PvP gear if PvP were to ever become popular. It happened a few years ago in WoW, forcing Blizzard to eventually take action against the armies of botters in battlegrounds. We could have a gear system if SE would police it, but even then, Blizzard has sharply flattened the PvP gear curve in WoW while giving every class the same base stats in PvP and it's still the most active MMORPG PvP game. Personally, I couldn't play the arena PvP in 2.0, not even in primetime on the weekends. I literally never saw it pop during my entire time with 2.0 despite trying.

[Levy9]

Can someone explain to me the point of botting pvp? Like for what end result?

PvP has given tomes, wolf marks & their associated glamours for years but widespread botting is more recent. Not to say that it literally never happened before but it was much rarer and largely negligible during the 2.0 & 3.0 eras. It seems to have exploded to all time highs after 4.0's exp system, which is why there was an outcry of posters in the forums asking for PvP exp to be removed last year. The difference was notable enough for them (and me) to attribute the rise in botting to the exp system. Endgame PvE tomes probably aren't a significant factor, as endgame PvE content rewards endgame tomes by default.

Fair warning about the roulette, most of the bots seem to stick to shatter. A common theme between images and videos like the above is that they tend to be shatter matches. I did a bunch of 72 man seal rock last night and there were no readily discernable bots. I don't believe there were any bots at all, but you can't always know that among so many people.

[MomomiMomi]

I very often have 4-5 bots in my party, especially during the slow hours of the night. Not only is it frustrating having them on my team, but it's also not very fun to kill bots, either.

Last night I had 4 bots in my party. One of the enemy teams had 4-5. The entire group walked right by me, a lone dps. Didn't even glance at me, the easy kill. What was more important to them? To go position themselves at that chokepoint. You know the place.

I should have died that night. I should have died.

[Joe777]

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to ask SE about their stance on the bots issue at conventions, with live letter, etc. Perhaps this needs to be pressed harder at such times... Forums are one thing, but if they dodge, deflect, or flat out ignore that then that means they are not acknowledging it, or have some reason to not acknowledge it. Either way, it should at least be acknowledged. I'm not big on PvP but I feel for the PvP community on this.

[Vnolan]

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to ask SE about their stance on the bots issue at conventions, with live letter, etc. Perhaps this needs to be pressed harder at such times...

lol at that customer service. Need a query answered? It's as simple as ambushing the director at a live event.