"Toxic"? or Just advice you don't want to hear?

[Miste]

Depends on the approach they take. Do they take a condescending tone, or do they take a polite tone? It is possible to be "helpful" while being condescending, such as "You're a moron, you need to do this."

I think you misunderstand. I am not talking about people who give advice that way since it is quite obvious that is the wrong way. I am talking about neutral and polite advice. I am talking about the people who have posted in this thread and I don't recall anyone saying they give advice in a rude way at all, just neutral and polite.

Not to say no one is rude like that with advice in-game, but it would be obvious why no one should condone that kind of rude advice and it doesn't seem like anyone in this thread condones that kind of rudeness nor has anyone said they give advice in such a rude way either.

So basically I wanted to know why he posted that @OP and to the thread ... with that rant that seemed to be very accusatory. The OP and no one else in this thread seems to be advocating rude advice? Which would be common sense. So I don't get the reason for it nor understand all the negative labels he threw.

[Paladinleeds]

I think you misunderstand. I am not talking about people who give advice that way since it is quite obvious that is the wrong way. I am talking about neutral and polite advice. I am talking about the people who have posted in this thread and I don't recall anyone saying they give advice in a rude way at all, just neutral and polite.

Aye, I did misunderstand. My apologies there. In this case then, I totally agree with you. As for the common sense thing, at least where I live, it's actually very rare. I don't agree with what he said either. I want to go on a tirade about it but I will refrain, because I know that'll be seen by some as justification for how he feels. But in online multiplayer games, you need to have a thick skin. Especially the female players. The abuse I've had to moderate for the chats of female streamers is insane for example. I mean, if you pass something off in the tone you're suggesting, I will try my best to take it on board (some things can be more difficult due to disabilities, but that's different and the people in this thread you're talking about who give advice would understand if that were the case for someone). So yeah.

[Khanscott]

Nowadays, it has become rather difficult to tell between legit advice and passive aggression when it comes to gaming. The lack of vocal articulation does not help this situation. Now, couple this with the standard stigma of of everyone being toxic children and you have a nice little bit of social Russian roulette to enjoy. Validity of said stigma irrelevant, lies that are told enough times become truth. Because one should never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. Yes, I just chain quoted Goebbels and Carlin.

Regardless, Chalk this issue up to a mix of people not knowing what civility is, and people jumping at their own shadows. Me? I couldn't care less how many times the BIS tank has seen the interior of Sastasha, and pointing that out makes for a great catharsis for what ails me emotionally. Or I'll simply do it out of spite, because the blue DPS's whining is wasting my time and thus pissing me off. Likewise, I'll make clear to the new person that I'm not being a passive little ----- with my advice. In a manner that is devoid of any subtlety and sugar coating. Because this also pisses me off. Screw turning the other cheek.

[Mirch]

chat hurt people feelings, remove chat

[Lord_Umbra]

Like everything in life if they don't ask don't tell, people who don't ask something usually don't want to be told. Fact is all Advice comes off insulting to people not asking for help, say you had a math question you solved it"beat boss with below avg dps" but did it in a long not really helpful roundabout way & someone else loudly called you out in front whole class"Raid group" offered you a easier more useful method to solving it"proper rotation", whilst it might actually help in long run you'd feel very called out & insulted.

If going try give advice I'd say might be less insulting to someone do it through a tell, even then you'll probably get hate because as said if someone isn't bothering to ask then probably most likely don't want any advice & think they're doing just fine.

[Khanscott]

Like everything in life if they don't ask don't tell, people who don't ask something usually don't want to be told. Fact is all Advice comes off insulting to people not asking for help, say you had a math question you solved it"beat boss with below avg dps" but did it in a long not really helpful roundabout way & someone else loudly called you out in front whole class"Raid group" offered you a easier more useful method to solving it"proper rotation", whilst it might actually help in long run you'd feel very called out & insulted.

If going try give advice I'd say might be less insulting to someone do it through a tell, even then you'll probably get hate because as said if someone isn't bothering to ask then probably most likely don't want any advice & think they're doing just fine.

It's like people don't know how to talk or interact with people anymore. Case in point: after the aforementioned "beat boss with below avg dps", the person retorts your response with "I was just sayin'" while actually being so stupid as to actually think that they know what criticism is. Case in point: if I were a recipient of LOLcriticism such as this, my fear would be my raid peers seeing this as a divine gospel and proceed to spread the good word to the masses who will also accept the light of truth that they have been blessed with, rendering any sort of future improvement meaning less as the people have accepted the divine gospel that says otherwise.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

If a person is offended by a "what and why" statement, they need to either stop being so readily defensive, or actually listen and avoid the issue all together.

"Hey, position yourself away from the party with that marker," (what) "so that the party takes less damage." (why)
"Use Iron Jaws," (what) "to refresh both your dots at once." (why)
"Don't preload ammo before battle," (what) "doing so locks you out of heat generation for 3 shots, lowering your damage." (why) [This is a PvP MCH example]

All of that isn't much different from if I were to say, "Hey watch your step," (what) "there's broken glass there." (why)

[Miste]

even then you'll probably get hate because as said if someone isn't bothering to ask then probably most likely don't want any advice & think they're doing just fine.

Like everything in life? If the human race did this where we don't offer help to others simply to avoid hurting people's feelings....we never would have made it out of the stone age or evolved at all :/

Yes, it is just a game, but that is also a good reason why people shouldn't be getting so pissed off and "give hate" to others over something so minor like giving a few tips about something game related. It's a game right? Why start flinging derogatory language at someone simply trying to help you with said game? (assuming the person was polite/neutral with their advice, I don't advocate rudeness)

I mean you can't expect everyone to figure things out all alone...we learn by helping each other. Like you said that person "thinks they are doing just fine", but they factually might not be....they may never figure it out unless others who were more experienced helped them with it.

If someone feels insulted to the point of lashing out with derogatory language simply over polite/neutral advice from someone else on a MMO they either shouldn't be playing MMOs or they need to get a thicker skin.

[Derio]

Many times it is the way it is said, or in this case the way it is written. People can read things and interpret them differently from their own point of view and view them as negative or positive.

If someone says " Please use Holy sometimes healer" someone can take that as a rude comment or telling them how to do their job.

But if someone says the same thing " Please use Holy sometimes healer to stun the large groups of adds." Then someone would look at it differently.


Some people offer help and others can find it offending. That is the crazy world we live in. Apparently though that doesnt happen on the Japanese servers.

[Linx0r]

So...why all this tirade of negative labels? What was the fuel to drive this post?

Are people who try to help others really all those negative things?

Really, i'm offering another perspective and my opinion, and it doesn't make me wrong. most people will hear what you have to say (including myself when i've offered advice) but at the end of the day, you create more drama by doing so. from my experience, ASK people if they want advice. By no means am i taking this personally, but offering an opinion to widen the scope of this thread. not everyone may think as you do, miste. ....or how i do, for that matter.