"Toxic"? or Just advice you don't want to hear?

[SilverObi]

Style points don't really matter when your LB is overkill for the boss. It's more bad than good when you hit the boss for 95% more damage required to kill it.

This is why you often see melee dps sitting and waiting for the second bar in dungeons even though 1 bar would finish off the boss that's already at 5-6%. That's usually when I roll my eyes and just use caster or ranged LB (I usually wait and see since I know those two are lower potency, also out of some weird politeness for melee)

[aqskerorokero]

Yeah....that pretty much is what toxic means......

[Linx0r]

If I get a mute bard, Im going to go "Bard, songs?". If both healers are dead and the redmage isn't raising, "Redmage, get the healers".

Its this kind of treading softly on eggshells because uwu feelings that made Shinryuu normal bottle neck. Are you so thin skinned that someone pointing things out is immediately some kind of personal insult?

I’m giving out my opinion, I’m not saying that’s the way I am. I honestly could care less what people have to say. People play the game they want and if advice is needed, people will ask. They don’t need players spouting things like ‘git gud’. For players that FEEL they NEED to spout from their mouth, ask if people want advice first or be polite in your presentation

[Linx0r]

If I get a mute bard, Im going to go "Bard, songs?". If both healers are dead and the redmage isn't raising, "Redmage, get the healers".

Its this kind of treading softly on eggshells because uwu feelings that made Shinryuu normal bottle neck. Are you so thin skinned that someone pointing things out is immediately some kind of personal insult?

Also, are You so egotistical to think that people want to hear your opinion? The argument goes both ways and I’m pointing out another side of it. I just see soooooo many people spouting ‘advice’ when it honestly never helps (raids aside) . If you are in a dungeon, seriously it’s a dungeon

[Rokke]

Also, are You so egotistical to think that people want to hear your opinion? The argument goes both ways and I’m pointing out another side of it. I just see soooooo many people spouting ‘advice’ when it honestly never helps (raids aside) . If you are in a dungeon, seriously it’s a dungeon

When tank does a big pull and the MCH isn’t using AoEs or the SMN has died 3 times to the same mechanic time I’m going to say something. I’m not going to start calling people idiots or go off on some expletive heavy caplock rant, but pointing people in the right direction is infinitely better than sitting quietly and hoping that one day they’ll figure it out on their own. Again, Shinryuu proved that many made it to 70 without learning how to play the game.


Advice does help. It might not help you but what can ya do with an attitude like

I honestly could care less what people have to say

When I was a wee healer I regen'd pre-pull. One day a tank told me to stop as it was the reason the enemies would immediately attempt to punch my face in. 2 years later, I tell healers to stop pre-pulling regen. Its a bad habit. The faster you stop, the better you'll be down the line. If people cannot handle others pointing out obvious errors (use heavy thrust, use songs, use cooldowns, use enochian, use positionals, etc), they probably should stick to single player games.

[Bandibear]

If you are in a dungeon, seriously it’s a dungeon

See I can't agree with this, if you are playing badly then you should be given helpful advice otherwise the others in the group are doing more work and I do not pay my sub to carry others. A bad player adds 5 minutes plus which I'd rather spend doing something else.

Like I said I will be polite and take feelings into consideration, the advice is advice take it or leave it but don't berate someone only trying to help. The discussion is the far too negative reaction to being offered help as if its "toxic" when the only toxic thing in the game is this type of bad attitude and unwillingness to learn.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Also, are You so egotistical to think that people want to hear your opinion? The argument goes both ways and I’m pointing out another side of it. I just see soooooo many people spouting ‘advice’ when it honestly never helps (raids aside) . If you are in a dungeon, seriously it’s a dungeon

And there it is folks. "Seriously, it's a dungeon".

The Duty Finder Mentality.

That mentality is why we have that thread about sharing DF horror stories and similar things. It's the fundamental flaw that prevents us from simply having a better community.

I won't for a minute try to glorify the JP community, but I have to admire the fact that they'll use the Party Finder for practice and learning, if only to be able to put their best foot forward if and when they use the Duty Finder. . . And just look at their clear rates. While some may be scoffing at me saying that, stop and think for a moment that perhaps by coming in with the mentality to do their best and not be a burden on others, they're doing something right. . .

Granted, that's just not how the NA community works, and it's not going to change overnight. But! There's nothing saying it can't ever change. For that to happen though, the idea that it's "just Duty Finder" needs to go away. Tighten up. Give your best or get out. You don't have to be perfect, but you damn well better be trying at least. One person may think it's fine to be carried, but if everyone there is expecting to be carried, pretty soon you'll notice no one's going anywhere.

[NessaWyvern]

I remember once back when mechanics mattered more in the Typhon and Ultros fight, telling someone they needed to collect stacks by standing in the ultro's bubble cone aoe, and only imp punch Typhon when he was casting that long snort move (don't remember what it was called). The guy before then had been punching Typhon the entire time when in imp form (causing wipes).
He then got extremely toxic, and insisted I was wrong. Even when 3 others backed me up.
Eventually everyone voted to abandon, and I saw the guy was on my server. I sent him the youtube link to the guide for him to watch and told him what point to skip to, to watch that exact mechanic, and what I got back was "Thanks for whispering me, now I can blacklist you <3".

I was speechless.

Turns out, you can only help someone who wants to be helped.

[Miste]

I’m giving out my opinion, I’m not saying that’s the way I am.

I'm sorry, but based on your posts I am disinclined to believe you on that.

I mean your first post in here....

I can't believe people think of themselves as so egocentric as to point out others flaws and tell them about it, especially if it's in a GAME. If you are raiding, the constructive criticism is expected, but really, you feel you NEED to tell people what they did wrong? Maybe ASK before TELLING. It's super rude for people to just go off on someone else. If you are just that type of person that NEEDS to tell people what they are doing wrong, maybe you are in the wrong and have some work to do on your personality in being sensitive towards others.

You call people offering advice egocentric, rude, bad personality, and insensitive.

I think that's all of it? It seems like you are taking this pretty personally to label people who try to help others all those negatives.

I mean...look at all those negative labels? All because someone tried to help another player? When did "help" become a negative thing?

I don't think I have seen anyone post in here that has said they are impolite with their advice or "go off on someone else" with any kind of rude words. They simply use neutral and polite requests or instructions to help the player and help the group.

So...why all this tirade of negative labels? What was the fuel to drive this post?

Are people who try to help others really all those negative things?

[Paladinleeds]

Are people who try to help others really all those negative things?

Depends on the approach they take. Do they take a condescending tone, or do they take a polite tone? It is possible to be "helpful" while being condescending, such as "You're a moron, you need to do this." (yes, I do occasionally see it), vs a more encouraging term like "Have you tried this? It helps in this manner." - if someone takes the former approach I'm not afraid to stick up for the person being insulted (by vote kicking the insulter, and if needed explaining after about what was being explained, in an encouraging manner), but if they take the latter approach I'll remain quiet as there's no need to stick up for anybody. We need to be willing to help and be helped, but insults won't help at all.

Simply put, advice is fine if given in a friendly and supportive manner (rather than as a thinly veiled insult), and those who disagree in my opinion need to grow a thick skin. Especially as there's a good chunk of people who won't be friendly about it and will instead launch profanity and insult-laden tirades at you. Those giving advice in a friendly and supportive manner are helping you disarm those sorts of people, by patching up your play so there's less for them to insult!