"Toxic"? or Just advice you don't want to hear?

[Tridus]

Both?

We all know there's toxic players out there, who troll and cause trouble and generally act like jerks. We see them around here too. Every game has them, although there's fewer here than in a lot of other games.

We also know there's people who want to be carried and really hate to be called out on it, claiming that it's toxic to point out that they're not even trying. Then we have this trend I've been seeing more lately of DPS players queing as healers and then never healing just to get a faster queue. That crap needs to be stomped out mercilessly.

Bad players are out there. Some of them are quite content being bad, and some of them want to get better. You can tell which is which by how they react to advice.

[Penthea]

The way you present your advice can often make a huge difference with how people react to it.

If it's with a random group and someone's less than good performance isn't making things impossible, I usually stay quiet unless that person starts having a go at someone else. If it's making things impossible then criticism with politeness can help. "Please use the other sect because our shields don't stack" tends to be better recieved than "You're in the wrong sect and it's messing up the healing"

If it's with someone I know, I find it works to also point out what they do well. If all you do is highlight what they did wrong it can feel like an attack. It makes a huge difference if you also highlight what is good about their playstyle because then the player feels like that what is good about their performance isn't being ignored or being completely eclipsed by what is bad. Personally I also give examples of things I did wrong in the past as it makes me appear just as flawed as they are, and it shows that even players who are very good now were not always perfect. We all have to start somewhere.

[Bandibear]

Then we have this trend I've been seeing more lately of DPS players queing as healers and then never healing just to get a faster queue. That crap needs to be stomped out mercilessly.

Is this a thing? I never even knew, this makes so much sense. Mind blown.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

This is an issue we run into a lot in PvP. I give advice where and when I see it's needed, or I try to correct a bad call in a respectable manner, but being told I'm wrong where I know I'm not or that no one's interested in my "suggestions" - suggestions being a general advice to avoid a bad situation - tends to rub me and others with experience the wrong way.

Let it be stated that I get nothing from being nasty to someone, and I even understand that sometimes failure is the better teacher. But where I can try to help prevent that, or correct a potentially game-changing mistake, I will. If I'm called toxic for it, well, I can be quiet and let failure do the teaching in my stead. . .

[Nora_of_Mira]

Ah thank you so much I was so confused XD

In my circle of friends, we don't expect anything while doing roulettes and don't bother calling them out because:

1) we typically play with average to below average performers (low dps, heal-only healers, AoE-defficient players)
2) they never respond positively, no matter the form of feedback
3) the difference between a good party and a bad party is 5 minutes for dungeons, 20-30 minutes for 24-man raids (Rabanastre only)
4) no one listens in 24-man raids....

ironically, the only place were I see actual advice being given or taken is in my savage raid group (so called elitists).

[Aylis]

Is this a thing? I never even knew, this makes so much sense. Mind blown.

Tanks too, its been a thing since 2.0 given how fast and easy it is to level another role, its the biggest flaw in the armory system.

On topic, no its not just you and its not limited to FFXIV either, you'll encounter these types of players no matter where you go in the MMO universe. On the topic of giving advice, as others said presentation is the key...Still then either way you'll encounter plenty that are hostile to advice and want to believe they're perfect no matter how nice you are. There are those that are more the welcome and open to advice as well...if only everyone came with a flag or something to make it easier to tell.

[Miste]

I have had a lot of this same issue.

I used to try to help others with stuff if I see them doing things that are very incorrect. Like advising PLDs about Flash when they are not holding hate or using their tank stance when they pull because the healer is tanking mobs. Or simply reminding ASTs that they should choose their sect if I notice they have neither on. Just a few examples of my suggestions, plenty more and simply offered in order to help them out and to help our group succeed and clear the content at hand. Team effort and such.

But, unfortunately no matter how nice and carefully I try to phrase my suggestions...I just mostly get nasty insults as a response IE: tons of swearing, you don't pay my sub, elitist, etc. It just seems to me like the usual response you get after polite casual advice is they just treat the person who offered it like garbage. No idea why that is the immediate response instead of communicating like a civil person. /shrug

I've gotten some positive response where people were happy for the help, but the majority was negative.

In the end I've mostly given up trying to give anyone suggestions on how to improve. It isn't worth it for how often I just get yelled at as a result.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Tanks too, its been a thing since 2.0 given how fast and easy it is to level another role, its the biggest flaw in the armory system.

...it can't be inherently wrong that I can decide to start Tanking my roulettes because I dont want to wait 20 minutes. I dont troll anyone, I do my job. But thats not the armory systems fault that players are bad.

[Tridus]

...it can't be inherently wrong that I can decide to start Tanking my roulettes because I dont want to wait 20 minutes. I dont troll anyone, I do my job. But thats not the armory systems fault that players are bad.

If you actually tank, there's nothing wrong with that. It's working as intended.

But when you get a SCH in Doma Castle who never heals the tank at all and tries to let Selene handle the whole thing while they spam Broil? Soon as the tank dies more than once because of it, that's kind of a problem...

Or you get stuff in Sigmascape where only one healer is healing at all, and they're doing all the work because the other one apparently thinks they're playing a DPS class.

[Penthea]

But when you get a SCH in Doma Castle who never heals the tank at all and tries to let Selene handle the whole thing while they spam Broil? Soon as the tank dies more than once because of it, that's kind of a problem...

I have seen this a lot and at this point I find it hilarious. It astonishes me that some people can't grasp the basic concepts of healing. It's obvious the fairy isn't enough to keep everyone alive, one look at the hp bars makes it plain to see. I do wonder how some people get to 70 and somehow don't realise that doing nothing while everyone is sitting at 50% or lower is okay.