The general player base needs to improve

[KaivaC]

snip

What? No, they do not need to be harder than Rabanastre or Shinryu, nor should they start off at that level either. I swear, there is no middle ground with you. It's either this or that, never something in between. Bardams Mettle, at that point in the story, reinforces what you should already know. Maybe in later expert dungeons, you can have them at a few steps below the kind of difficulty you would face with Hashmal. I hear what you're saying quite clearly - but you keep going straight to "it must be at near Savage level" to be effective. No, it does not if Expert Dungeons start increasing difficulty. Nor do you need to have hour long dungeons. These suggestions aren't for vets that raid... This is something for casual to midcore as a buffer to the sudden difficulty spike in Savage, or really, something for other players not interested in raiding, but looking for something relatively challenging. Not everything difficult has to go straight to punishingly difficult. Just because you personally won't do it doesn't mean that there aren't other players who won't.

[MoroMurasaki]

You're not really getting my point. I don't know how much clearer I can make it.

There is a large difficulty gap between Savage and the rest of the game.

There is an appreciable gap between EX trials and casual content.

There is apparently quite a gap between Rabanastre and the dungeoning/normal mode trials included in the main story.

Despite all these large difficulty gaps somehow you think there are only Savage mechanics and faceroll dungeons. You say you don't know how you can make your point any clearer, maybe instead of focusing on that you should focus on understanding what people are telling you.

[WilhelmWhite]

"Ouch, I stubbed my toe. Damn millennials!"
"Oh no, I just dropped my coffee! Those gosh darn millennials!!!!"

This is the problem with gamers of today, instead of figuring it out via trial and error they let someone else tell them how to play their job, aka they go to a guide and do rotations, BIS, what jobs are "meta" what aren't, what's the best for this or that. Millennials tend to rely on guides far too much.

>Blames millennials for bad gameplay, and says they rely too much on guides.

It's a bitch to learn it with others that know it, I understand all too well, one of the few reasons I don't really raid in this game.

Just so you know if you die because of the mechanics and not knowing them it's not your fault, it's theirs for not explaining it, they also don't have any right to bitch if they don't give you a rundown first. Don't worry so much about dying at first, it's natural.

>Then contradicts self by saying it's the party memeber's responsibility to explain the fight, even though you just complained about millennials not wanting to learn by trial and error.

Never said the entire fight and yes if need be figure out on your own, but I realize that millennials won't do this because they want everything handed to them via guides or whatnot. Good try tho.

>Called out on contradiction, ignores it, then blames millennials again. GG.

[Tridus]

>Called out on contradiction, ignores it, then blames millennials again. GG.

I'm surprised his sig isn't "Get off my lawn with your rock music."

[Tridus]

That\\'s kinda it they use cure 2 cos there\\'s no reason to use cure 1. It\\'s not like they\\'ll run outta mp.

That is one end of the problem. But the other end is that I can burst people back up so fast that anything that doesn't kill them isn't that risky. It's even worse in full party content because there's two healers doing burst healing and the same amount of HP to fill.

And that's where the issue of "just stand in it, it's fine" comes from. If it takes more time/DPS loss for the DPS to move than it does for me to just heal through it, it's a net gain for the party for me to just heal through it. If it took 5 GCDs to recover from that, it'd be a different story because suddenly I can't get everyone back to full before the next mechanic, and now there's no choice but to dodge stuff.

You can see that on something like Hashmal vs Thadalfus. Thadalfus has lots of mechanics, but unless you get stacks high enough or run into the sides, you can eat a lot of what he does and I can save you. Hashmal simply flattens you and it's much harder (or outright impossible) to save you from it. The community considers one of these fights much, much harder than the other, and the fact that Thadalfus is only truly dangerous if you're not at full HP is a major factor in why.

The thing is, I don't think one shot everything is a healthy game design. Healers ultimately need stuff to heal to feel like they're making an impact as healers rather than Green DPS. That's where a design of lower power healing would help. If I need high HPS burst healing because everyone ate stuff, make that *expensive*. Don't make it so one heal restores half of an entire health bar when damage isn't coming fast enough to need that level of HPS, on my base healing. I'm missing stuff like high MP fast heals vs low MP slower heals that other games have and that make time vs resources a thing you have to manage, which was a skill required to do healing well.

None of that could happen until 5.0, but I hope they look at it.

[Tridus]

Well, we kind of have this with red mage, and red make healing can't really get people to full health from raise without maybe 4 GCDs. That means if they raise and the hit that comes after is large enough, we can't really save them, nor can we really do much if the tank forgets a cooldown and loses 75% health instead of 50%.

Most other trinity game healers have a variety of heals for this. When things are going well, you use your MP efficient heals. When stuff like that happens, you burn MP and use your high HPS ones to recover. Do that too many times, and you run out of MP. And yes, if you wipe because of that, your group wasn't doing the mechanics correctly so you probably earned it.

XIV's problem is that this stuff doesn't exist. Virtually all heals have the same cast time (either one GCD, or instant, Medica II and a hardcast Raise might be the only exceptions). MP efficiency doesn't matter because MP management is so easy that it's irrelevant, time efficiency is the only consideration. Burst healing is so powerful that you can recover any amount of health loss except "all of it" in seconds, and then you're back to flinging rocks. That is what results in needing vuln up, one shots, and enrages to challenge a group. You *can't* challenge them by trying to run the healers out of MP by simply making avoidable damage hurt a lot, which is an encounter design other games can do.

You get some hard limits to how much you can react since you spend more GCDs/time to do specific levels of healing, and you have less spare GCDS to convert to emergency heals from DPS. That means anyone who screws up is going to be on the floor longer and be more vulnerable when they get up, and be unable to deal with mechanics.

I spend more than half my GCDs DPSing. We are nowhere near close to the point where that's an issue.

You'd not make healing harder. You'd make DPSing a lot harder and they'd be able to wipe the raid much easier.

You've got it backwards. Having fewer one shot mechanics and making it harder for healers to constantly recover big damage taken is making DPS easier, because you can now eat a mechanic without dying. You can't do it three times in a row, but you can recover it at the expense of healer time and MP. It's making healing harder but requiring healers to use more time and MP recovering from those mistakes.

[Kerwin]

Stop triple posting and edit your original post Tridus. No one cares about your post count lol.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I'm surprised his sig isn't "Get off my lawn with your rock music."

*snicker*

Now, that's funny!

And I agree with your later posts. A large part of the issue is caused by how powerful healers are in this game. It makes a lot of bad play fine. In addition, it requires mobs to hit too hard.

It would be much better to throttle the amount of health restored by each healing spell. This would enable a dungeon design where damage could be more evenly dealt. This would have the added benefit of bringing decision making into the game as healers would have to decide whom to heal and when aka triage.

Stop triple posting and edit your original post Tridus. No one cares about your post count lol.

Kerwin, settle.

It's clear she broke up her posts to address each individual's post separately for the sake of clarity. Yes, she could have made a mega-post but it would have been cluttered with too many discussions.

Here have a virtual chocolate chip cookie.
/handover

[Raven2014]

snip

Again, one last time: what you say are only your ideal dream, a scenario that run in your head that completely detached from reality. We are spurred to do what necessary, but rarely beyond that, that's just our nature.

- The reason Optimization only exists in raid because not only of the need to clear, there are a level of competitive exists among the raiding community.
- That's why you don't see optimization in dungeon. Your example about healer DPS is completely superfluos at best. Between taking 1 hit or 3 hit make little difference to healer most of the time, since it'll take them one heal to top you off either way, factor in their OGCD and it's largely irrelevant. Source: I play all 3 healers.
- That's why you don't see optimization in 24 raid. 99% of time, the most accurate word to describe an alliance raid is "lazy". And the reason it's the case because you can be lazy and still clear.

Most people work because they have to afford their life somehow, you're talking as if we'll aspire to work to become a millionaire one day. Yes, some of us are, but most don't. Right now, the game is set up in a away that say "oh the only thing you need to do is to show up for work and put in minimal afford, and you still walk home with the pay". As long as that system exist, there is no reason for the majority to try any harder than minimum afford even if you have co-workers constantly tell them "hey, can you please put in some more afford?" You need the system itself shift to a mode where it raises the expectation that you MUST do better if you want the cake at the end of the day.

[RiyahArp]

What? No, they do not need to be harder than Rabanastre or Shinryu, nor should they start off at that level either.

Then it wont teach anyone anything. They'll release it, and you all will complain at how easy they are, because harder than current expert but weaker than rab or shin is still really easy. So you just wasted the devs time. The weaker players will just get carried through them like they get carried through rab. The actual difficulty needed to make an expert that can wipe people and not let dead weight be carried is harder than rab or shin, and closer to an ex trial like susano. And the only way you teach people is by things that challenge them and force everyone to do their roll properly. So it will be in between rab and the easiest ex primal or savage instance to be effective.

People aren't thinking that to teach players effectively, in a way current content doesn't, requires it to be harder for everyone. I think people tend to fixate on one word i say "savage" and don't get i am meaning only it will borrow techniques from it; it may still be easier than alte roite or phantom train, but it cannot be easier than rab.