What is the General Consensus?

[Nedkel]

You have missed the point of the warrior tool set. Inner release in deliverance is warrior's highest potency move, because it is not augmented by tank stance, and it is up frequently this will balance out with the less frequent bloodspiller.

The 475 bloodspillers are nice, but is lowered slightly by tank stance, and also less frequently used compared to inner beast. You can make this look as bad as you want by comparing base potency to base potency without factoring in things like damage buffs and stance penalties. You can also wave your hands at things like salted earth and other Dark oGCD's without even mentioning that warrior has some as well, but you aren't really presenting a balanced case, it seems more like you are intentionally skewing things to make a point.

All tanks lose about the same percentage of their dps in tank stance. Warrior does more damage out of tank stance compared to dark knight, and so I expect it to be higher when both have similar penalties imposed. You can wave your hands at combo potency as much as you please, but nothing short of an excel spreadsheet and damage calculator would convince me that the difference in potency is unbalanced between the two in tank stance, especially compared to the relatively simple argument many have presented before you.

As far as the stance changing immediately hurting your dps you can stop it by: planning an unchained use to minimize it to nearly nothing and even gain dps on moves like upheaval to minimize any losses even further. The main point here is that if you needed that clutch self heal on warrior you can go into tank stance and gain access easily, all moves involved are oGCD. Dark Knight loses a GCD going into tank stance and then spends 3 GCD's trying to restore its HP at an 80% reduction thanks to tank stance. The main point here being that if you are about to die the non optimal thing to do is to continue to dps and not try to save yourself.

Bloodspiller is not lowered by tank stance, DRK has 0 dmg penalty on tank stance because of Darkside.
It will remain 475 potency ability, with no damage penalty.
I may be less frequent but it does not matter, because 1-2-3 combo is still way stronger than warrior get.

There is no way warrior in tank stance could do more damage than DRK in tank stance, not even a chance in hell.
I could demonstrate it with the numbers, in the 60 seconds of time the DRK in tank stance, comparing to warrior using only highest potency combo, inner beast use with generated furry gauge with combo and infuriate, considering all the buffs unchained, inner release inner beast 5 times use and even 10% bonus dmg from storms eye combo is 880 potency lower than DRK using 1-2-3 combo, salted earth, plunge, carve and spit without bloodspiller.
I could show you the numbers if you want.

[SaberYukihira]

There is no way warrior in tank stance could do more damage than DRK in tank stance, not even a chance in hell.
I could demonstrate it with the numbers, in the 60 seconds of time the DRK in tank stance, comparing to warrior using only highest potency combo, inner beast use with generated furry gauge with combo and infuriate, considering all the buffs unchained, inner release inner beast 5 times use and even 10% bonus dmg from storms eye combo is 880 potency lower than DRK using 1-2-3 combo, salted earth, plunge, carve and spit without bloodspiller.
I could show you the numbers if you want.

The fact you are talking about doing a fight in tank stance already means you're not tanking correctly. There is literally no point in arguing what tank does more in tank stance since you should not be using it other than on pull for MT.

[Nedkel]

The fact you are talking about doing a fight in tank stance already means you're not tanking correctly. There is literally no point in arguing what tank does more in tank stance since you should not be using it other than on pull for MT.

We discuss a tank stance dps potential of both tanks, not the dps potential out of it.
The discussion is, does warrior really delivers everything his kit could give to us or is he limited by the stance mechanics and he either could be tanky and heal himself doing way less dmg or doing damage only, because sadly enough warrior in deliverance loses his decent healing ability and mitigation, but why would you deal like 40% more damage for that? And this makes him worse than people try to make him look overloaded and so much better than anything else, well i cant say it i tried to play him and he feel just squishy.
Its obvious warrior is DPS level of dmg in deliverance lol.

[SaberYukihira]

We discuss a tank stance dps potential of both tanks, not the dps potential out of it.

Do you really not get mored DPS = less healing required? The faster you kill the boss the less dmg received. Also you have no idea what you're talking about because warrior is the only tank to switch stance OGCD not to mention the shortest cds vengeance and hg. either way you argue warrior has the most self healing in defiance. So in terms of tank stance dps potential yes you can solo fight way better than the other two(slashing, path healing, inner beast equilibrium, etc.) A dark doesn't have slashing. there goes its dps advantage. blood spiller and inner beast both ignore dmg penalty. If you haven't tanked through an entire tier of savage you really can't say much. Even in dungeons, faster you kill mobs less healing needed. ever since the rework 4.0 it has been trash. You only play dark if you wanna have "fun" now.

[shao32]

snip

you realice how ridculous is you post? bloodspiller get a damage penalty bcs loose the 20% damage buff off-grit, its 475 potency on grit to compensate the damage penalty is actually sufering for being in the stance.

and second, you cant argue DRK dealt more dps that WAR in tank stance more when WAR its not desing to stay in the same stance all the time specially defiance, WAR enjoy have both stance costless and ogcd for a reason and that one is to switch during the combat easily to take what we need, in a hypothetical case a WAR have to tank in defiance it will use they tank stance advantages to switch and use they gauge on fell cleaves and switch back to defiance when its done, dont lower WAR potential just for comvenience.

[Chrono_Rising]

Bloodspiller is not lowered by tank stance, DRK has 0 dmg penalty on tank stance because of Darkside.
It will remain 475 potency ability, with no damage penalty.

It does suffer a penalty. Tank stance penalty is still 80%. 1.2*.8=.96 you are doing 24 percentage points less damage in tank stance than not in tanks stance (with dark side on). You also have additional penalties like not having access to blood weapon, you biggest dps cooldown on dark knight. Once again you are cherry picking 1 or 2 things and pretending that they are the only things that matter. If you compare 400 potency to 475 potency on bloodspiller, yes the grit potency looks bigger, but as I told you in the previous post you need to take into account buffed potencies as well. Taking those potency buffs into account and no grit looks more like 480 potency and grit looks more like 456 potency, a 24 potency difference. It doesn't seem like much but dark knight thrives on those small potency increases. There are other factors involved, this same argument was brought up by Quor when warrior changes happened. In general I want to ask you if you are an alt of Quor because your writing, logic, and even factual errors are extremely similar.

I may be less frequent but it does not matter, because 1-2-3 combo is still way stronger than warrior get.

Yes if we leave out oGCDs, buffs, autos, and special attacks I agree the 1-2-3 combo is stronger on dark knight. You still aren't looking at the kit as a whole. This isn't even close to proving what you desire.

There is no way warrior in tank stance could do more damage than DRK in tank stance, not even a chance in hell.

You have done nothing to show this or convince anyone of this with anything you've said here. To recap, you've tried comparing base potencies to base potencies without taking into account class buffs and actions, you claimed TBN is a self heal (where this conversation originated from), compared combo potency and oGCDs to just combo potency, and claimed that dark knight does not suffer a tank stance penalty. All of those points are invalid and in no way represent the class kits all together and at times are just completely false.

I could demonstrate it with the numbers, in the 60 seconds of time the DRK in tank stance, comparing to warrior using only highest potency combo, inner beast use with generated furry gauge with combo and infuriate, considering all the buffs unchained, inner release inner beast 5 times use and even 10% bonus dmg from storms eye combo is 880 potency lower than DRK using 1-2-3 combo, salted earth, plunge, carve and spit without bloodspiller.
I could show you the numbers if you want.

Go for it, but I wouldn't stop at a minute because that is a convenient spot to stop at for dark knight and a bad spot to stop your comparison at for warrior. 240 seconds is the reset time for dark knight abilities, and 180 is a reset point for warrior. The fully mapped out rotation ending at those times should be more indicative of what they can do in tank stance in a potency per second sense. I look forward to seeing the full excel sheet when it is finished.

And by the way, this red herring that you have led us down with "who does more in tank stance", has absolutely nothing to do with the original claim that I asked you to clarify on which is how dark knight is self healing itself out of grit.

DRK basically doesnt sacrifice anything, maybe soul eater drain when out of grit stance, thats it. He is absolutely fine tanking, dealing damage and healing himself at the same time. Warrior could do the same, but then he does less dps anyway.